Re: The OM&S and the DS

[High Spy]

Re: The OM&S and the DS
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 6#p1439706

Don't forget the marred servant.

Throughout scripture are references to the two great servants of the last days.

These two sons.
The two candlesticks.
The two olive trees.
The two anointed ones.
The two witnesses.
The Stay and the Staff.
The Branch and the Brand.
The two staves.
The prophet and priest.
The Seer and the Spokesman.

I agree that they have two different roles. This is clear from 2 Nephi 3. The Seer will be the one to receive the word when the marvelous work occurs, and it will be the Spokesman who declares it. We learn from Isaiah that he will declare it with such convincing power that kings will shut their mouths at him.

Strange timing patterns were seen and posted at March8miracle.org.

The conclusion of 2010 was immediately evident, but what happened in 2010, wasn’t known until 2018.

[The Wicker Man]

I followed the link above. Why oh why can't anyone learn anything? Can't they understand English? Can't they believe the Bible?

Jesus gave the Law to Moses

"Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end" (3 Nephi 15:4-5).

And here is what they cannot understand or choose not to believe.

JOHN
14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

So who was it that gave the law to Moses? It was the indwelling Father of mankind. It was the indwelling Father of mankind that was talking in 3 Nephi 15:4-5.

It is so simple!

[Valo]

I followed the link above. Why oh why can't anyone learn anything? Can't they understand English? Can't they believe the Bible?

Jesus gave the Law to Moses

"Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end" (3 Nephi 15:4-5).

And here is what they cannot understand or choose not to believe.

JOHN
14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

So who was it that gave the law to Moses? It was the indwelling Father of mankind. It was the indwelling Father of mankind that was talking in 3 Nephi 15:4-5.

It is so simple!

Does the Father have grandchildren?

Which of the two symbols below best represents the "Son"?

or

[The Wicker Man]

I followed the link above. Why oh why can't anyone learn anything? Can't they understand English? Can't they believe the Bible?

Jesus gave the Law to Moses

"Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end" (3 Nephi 15:4-5).

And here is what they cannot understand or choose not to believe.

JOHN
14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

So who was it that gave the law to Moses? It was the indwelling Father of mankind. It was the indwelling Father of mankind that was talking in 3 Nephi 15:4-5.

It is so simple!

Does the Father have grandchildren?

Which of the two symbols below best represents the "Son"?

or

First one must realize that the words Father and Son are human words. It is just an approximate way of thinking about the relationship between the Father in heaven and the Son that is our Father. The Son that is our Father is the Spirit that indwelt Jesus at Jesus' baptism. It is the Spirit that indwelt Jesus that did the works and taught the gospel. The Father and Son analogy does not really extend to the notion of grandchildren. It is not an A begat B begat C situation.

Those two symbols above are human symbols that have no counterpart in heaven and therefore neither symbol represents the Son except in the minds of the humans that use them as such.

The Son that indwelt Jesus gave us more than a symbol for our understanding.

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

In the Jewish or Greek languages back then they did not have the word avatar. It would have allowed the Bible to be so much easier to understand if they had that word. The Son is a portion of the Father in heaven. The Son/human combination is the avatar of the Father in heaven. Jesus was the avatar of God just as in Hinduism Krishna is said to be the avatar of Brahman.

Is Krishna a myth?

Revelation 5:6: And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Who's to say if Krishna is a myth. Or if Quetzalcoatl is a myth. We only know of the Spirit of God made better than the other Spirits of God that was made better than the others because he was given the power of life, of creation and authority over all. Still there are other Spirits of God that have come into the earth at various times to teach other cultures the gospel of the kingdom.

[Valo]

I followed the link above. Why oh why can't anyone learn anything? Can't they understand English? Can't they believe the Bible?



And here is what they cannot understand or choose not to believe.

JOHN
14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

So who was it that gave the law to Moses? It was the indwelling Father of mankind. It was the indwelling Father of mankind that was talking in 3 Nephi 15:4-5.

It is so simple!

Does the Father have grandchildren?

Which of the two symbols below best represents the "Son"?

or

First one must realize that the words Father and Son are human words. It is just an approximate way of thinking about the relationship between the Father in heaven and the Son that is our Father. The Son that is our Father is the Spirit that indwelt Jesus at Jesus' baptism. It is the Spirit that indwelt Jesus that did the works and taught the gospel. The Father and Son analogy does not really extend to the notion of grandchildren. It is not an A begat B begat C situation.

Those two symbols above are human symbols that have no counterpart in heaven and therefore neither symbol represents the Son except in the minds of the humans that use them as such.

The Son that indwelt Jesus gave us more than a symbol for our understanding.

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Krishna taught Atman is Brahman.

My question about the triangle symbols was a false dichotomy, of course.

One symbol represents exploitation and the other represents responsibility and accountability.

Are there attributes to look out for to identify the Son? Will the Father indwell a mortal who is a child abuser, murderer, or someone who exploits other people, for instance?

[The Wicker Man]

Are there attributes to look out for to identify the Son? Will the Father indwell a mortal who is a child abuser, murderer, or someone who exploits other people, for instance?

I never put God in a box and tell him what he can and cannot do or will or will not do. For the longest time even Jesus' disiples did not understand the true nature of Jesus and the indwelling of the Son. They could not fathom that when Jesus' mouth was moving that it was not him that was speaking. Only Peter eventually understood. And Jesus indicated that Peter understood only because it was revealed to him by the Father. So in general, no there are no visible attributes. However, if someone were to really raise someone from the dead that would be a sure indication that the Son was with them. The Son will be close to the DS and maybe one day even indwell him and that is despite that the DS lived a life of sin for so long. And that is by God's design.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

All Christians that have an opinion on the above passage believe that it speaks of the antichrist or that it refers to Judas Iscariot. It does not. It talks about someone from above that is not kept from sinning. Those from above were not only in Jesus' time but rather have come throughout the centuries to be teachers. Those from above have already achived 'sonship' and they are given the earnest of the Spirit so they will not sin and lose their sonship.

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
2 Cor 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

So there is one from above that was not given the earnest of the Spirit. And therefore is not kept from sinning. And he is in fact in a state of being lost. There is only one "man of sin" mentioned in the OT that is healed by God to restore his condition of innocence and that is the DS as taught in Isaiah.

2 The 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Of course when the DS is revealed he has been healed and is ready to fulfill his mission. Now notice that verse 4 starts with a question.

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This is not talking about the man of sin because this character reveals himself by his actions. The DS is revealed by God when he is healed.

So to answer your question as it pertains to the DS I'm quite sure that the DS sin is not of a child abuser, murderer or exploiter of others. But then again I am biased because of my story and what it seems to indicate.

[Valo]

Are there attributes to look out for to identify the Son? Will the Father indwell a mortal who is a child abuser, murderer, or someone who exploits other people, for instance?

I never put God in a box and tell him what he can and cannot do or will or will not do. For the longest time even Jesus' disiples did not understand the true nature of Jesus and the indwelling of the Son. They could not fathom that when Jesus' mouth was moving that it was not him that was speaking. Only Peter eventually understood. And Jesus indicated that Peter understood only because it was revealed to him by the Father. So in general, no there are no visible attributes. However, if someone were to really raise someone from the dead that would be a sure indication that the Son was with them. The Son will be close to the DS and maybe one day even indwell him and that is despite that the DS lived a life of sin for so long. And that is by God's design.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

All Christians that have an opinion on the above passage believe that it speaks of the antichrist or that it refers to Judas Iscariot. It does not. It talks about someone from above that is not kept from sinning. Those from above were not only in Jesus' time but rather have come throughout the centuries to be teachers. Those from above have already achived 'sonship' and they are given the earnest of the Spirit so they will not sin and lose their sonship.

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
2 Cor 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

So there is one from above that was not given the earnest of the Spirit. And therefore is not kept from sinning. And he is in fact in a state of being lost. There is only one "man of sin" mentioned in the OT that is healed by God to restore his condition of innocence and that is the DS as taught in Isaiah.

2 The 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Of course when the DS is revealed he has been healed and is ready to fulfill his mission. Now notice that verse 4 starts with a question.

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This is not talking about the man of sin because this character reveals himself by his actions. The DS is revealed by God when he is healed.

So to answer your question as it pertains to the DS I'm quite sure that the DS sin is not of a child abuser, murderer or exploiter of others. But then again I am biased because of my story and what it seems to indicate.

Thank you so far for you answering my questions.

What is the "pure love of Christ"? I am referring to Moroni 7 where it uses this phrase. Here is most of chapter for context:

Wherefore, I would speak unto you that are of the church, that are the peaceable followers of Christ, and that have obtained a sufficient hope by which ye can enter into the rest of the Lord, from this time henceforth until ye shall rest with him in heaven. 4 And now my brethren, I judge these things of you because of your peaceable walk with the children of men. 5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also. 6 For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing. 7 For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness. 8 For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God. 9 And likewise also is it counted evil unto a man, if he shall pray and not with real intent of heart; yea, and it profiteth him nothing, for God receiveth none such. 10 Wherefore, a man being evil cannot do that which is good; neither will he give a good gift. 11 For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil. 12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually. 13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God. 14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil. 15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night. 16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. 17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him. 18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged. 19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ. 20 And now, my brethren, how is it possible that ye can lay hold upon every good thing? 21 And now I come to that faith, of which I said I would speak; and I will tell you the way whereby ye may lay hold on every good thing. 22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing. 23 And God also declared unto prophets, by his own mouth, that Christ should come. 24 And behold, there were divers ways that he did manifest things unto the children of men, which were good; and all things which are good cometh of Christ; otherwise men were fallen, and there could no good thing come unto them. 25 Wherefore, by the ministering of angels, and by every word which proceeded forth out of the mouth of God, men began to exercise faith in Christ; and thus by faith, they did lay hold upon every good thing; and thus it was until the coming of Christ. 26 And after that he came men also were saved by faith in his name; and by faith, they become the sons of God. And as surely as Christ liveth he spake these words unto our fathers, saying: Whatsoever thing ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is good, in faith believing that ye shall receive, behold, it shall be done unto you. 27 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, have miracles ceased because Christ hath ascended into heaven, and hath sat down on the right hand of God, to claim of the Father his rights of mercy which he hath upon the children of men? 28 For he hath answered the ends of the law, and he claimeth all those who have faith in him; and they who have faith in him will cleave unto every good thing; wherefore he advocateth the cause of the children of men; and he dwelleth eternally in the heavens. 29 And because he hath done this, my beloved brethren, have miracles ceased? Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither have angels ceased to minister unto the children of men. 30 For behold, they are subject unto him, to minister according to the word of his command, showing themselves unto them of strong faith and a firm mind in every form of godliness. 31 And the office of their ministry is to call men unto repentance, and to fulfil and to do the work of the covenants of the Father, which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men, by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him. 32 And by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father, the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men. 33 And Christ hath said: If ye will have faith in me ye shall have power to do whatsoever thing is expedient in me. 34 And he hath said: Repent all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, and have faith in me, that ye may be saved. 35 And now, my beloved brethren, if this be the case that these things are true which I have spoken unto you, and God will show unto you, with power and great glory at the last day, that they are true, and if they are true has the day of miracles ceased? 36 Or have angels ceased to appear unto the children of men? Or has he withheld the power of the Holy Ghost from them? Or will he, so long as time shall last, or the earth shall stand, or there shall be one man upon the face thereof to be saved? 37 Behold I say unto you, Nay; for it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men; wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain. 38 For no man can be saved, according to the words of Christ, save they shall have faith in his name; wherefore, if these things have ceased, then has faith ceased also; and awful is the state of man, for they are as though there had been no redemption made. 39 But behold, my beloved brethren, I judge better things of you, for I judge that ye have faith in Christ because of your meekness; for if ye have not faith in him then ye are not fit to be numbered among the people of his church. 40 And again, my beloved brethren, I would speak unto you concerning hope. How is it that ye can attain unto faith, save ye shall have hope? 41 And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise. 42 Wherefore, if a man have faith he must needs have hope; for without faith there cannot be any hope. 43 And again, behold I say unto you that he cannot have faith and hope, save he shall be meek, and lowly of heart. 44 If so, his faith and hope is vain, for none is acceptable before God, save the meek and lowly in heart; and if a man be meek and lowly in heart, and confesses by the power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, he must needs have charity; for if he have not charity he is nothing; wherefore he must needs have charity. 45 And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 46 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing, for charity never faileth. Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is the greatest of all, for all things must fail— 47 But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him. 48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen.

[Valo]

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This is not talking about the man of sin because this character reveals himself by his actions. The DS is revealed by God when he is healed.

That verse sounds like the Antichrist.

[The Wicker Man]

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This is not talking about the man of sin because this character reveals himself by his actions. The DS is revealed by God when he is healed.

That verse sounds like the Antichrist.

Correct

[The Wicker Man]

Charity is the pure love of Christ because only by charity can man be saved. And that charity begins at birth because, every person (that is not a tare) has the Spirit of Christ in them from birth.

[Valo]

Charity is the pure love of Christ because only by charity can man be saved. And that charity begins at birth because, every person (that is not a tare) has the Spirit of Christ in them from birth.

The pure love of Christ, that is the only good way I know how to judge myself is with charity. I think I want to judge my feelings, my thoughts, my actions with charity.

Christ said love your neighbor and your enemy.

Is the Son of Perdition a friend or an enemy?

And does it matter when it comes to how I judge?

Maybe charity cannot be used to condemn. Maybe that's part of it. Can ought but Christ see the most desperate and fallen of us and extend compassion and love towards them? Seems justice is the Lord's.

[Valo]

39 But behold, my beloved brethren, I judge better things of you, for I judge that ye have faith in Christ because of your meekness; for if ye have not faith in him then ye are not fit to be numbered among the people of his church. 40 And again, my beloved brethren, I would speak unto you concerning hope. How is it that ye can attain unto faith, save ye shall have hope? 41 And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise. 42 Wherefore, if a man have faith he must needs have hope; for without faith there cannot be any hope. 43 And again, behold I say unto you that he cannot have faith and hope, save he shall be meek, and lowly of heart. 44 If so, his faith and hope is vain, for none is acceptable before God, save the meek and lowly in heart; and if a man be meek and lowly in heart, and confesses by the power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, he must needs have charity; for if he have not charity he is nothing; wherefore he must needs have charity.

[Valo]

And again, behold I say unto you that he cannot have faith and hope, save he shall be meek, and lowly of heart.

[The Wicker Man]

Charity is the pure love of Christ because only by charity can man be saved. And that charity begins at birth because, every person (that is not a tare) has the Spirit of Christ in them from birth.

The pure love of Christ, that is the only good way I know how to judge myself is with charity. I think I want to judge my feelings, my thoughts, my actions with charity.

Christ said love your neighbor and your enemy.

Is the Son of Perdition a friend or an enemy?

And does it matter when it comes to how I judge?

Maybe charity cannot be used to condemn. Maybe that's part of it. Can ought but Christ see the most desperate and fallen of us and extend compassion and love towards them? Seems justice is the Lord's.

This is how it works. Michael TGP (and his greater Spirit, the Holy Spirit) is the Son. Not only can Michael fully indwell someone like he indwelt Adam, Enoch and Jesus as well as some others, a small portion of his Spirit is in all of us. It is a symbiotic relationship. By living according to God's laws we actually grow the portion of the Holy Spirit within us. In the parable of the ten talents the talents we are given is that portion of the Holy Spirit that is within us. When a man fathers a child a mustard sized portion of the Holy Spirit is transferred to the child. That is why the sins of the father is visited upon his children for 3 to 4 generations. Live not according to God's law and the Holy Spirit is diminished. The children do not receive as big a portion. As one grows the Spirit the Spirit's small voice also grows in volume and frequency. And it becomes easier to keep God's law. As one diminishes the Spirit the Spirit's small voice gets even smaller and it becomes more difficult to keep God's law. Salvation does not work like people think it does. It is not about, '"you" are a sinner and therefore God won't save "you"'. It is about, 'you are a sinner and as a consequence you have diminished the free gift of the Spirit given to you by birth to the point at which you cannot be saved'.

Speaking of the Christ Spirit within man God says.

10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.
11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.

Strive against the Christ Spirit within and one becomes as nothing. Strive with the Christ Spirit to keep God's law and Isa 41:14 applies.

14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.


I know all this is complicated and you won't be taught any of this by any church. But forgiveness is not God saying, "I forgive you". And repentance is not saying to God, "I repent". Repentance is living according to God's law. And God's forgiveness is being saved on the day of Salvation.

We are saved by grace is a true statement but it does not mean what is taught. It means, "I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer" !

[The Wicker Man]

The man of sin, the son of perdition is a good guy. He is the DS. See the logic. The DS is from above just like Jesus was from above and those given to Jesus were all from above. Only one of those from above is not kept from evil. We know from Isaiah that the DS is a sinner. If there is only one that is not kept from evil then the DS has to be the one.

[Valo]

Charity is the pure love of Christ because only by charity can man be saved. And that charity begins at birth because, every person (that is not a tare) has the Spirit of Christ in them from birth.

The pure love of Christ, that is the only good way I know how to judge myself is with charity. I think I want to judge my feelings, my thoughts, my actions with charity.

Christ said love your neighbor and your enemy.

Is the Son of Perdition a friend or an enemy?

And does it matter when it comes to how I judge?

Maybe charity cannot be used to condemn. Maybe that's part of it. Can ought but Christ see the most desperate and fallen of us and extend compassion and love towards them? Seems justice is the Lord's.

This is how it works. Michael TGP (and his greater Spirit, the Holy Spirit) is the Son. Not only can Michael fully indwell someone like he indwelt Adam, Enoch and Jesus as well as some others, a small portion of his Spirit is in all of us. It is a symbiotic relationship. By living according to God's laws we actually grow the portion of the Holy Spirit within us. In the parable of the ten talents the talents we are given is that portion of the Holy Spirit that is within us. When a man fathers a child a mustard sized portion of the Holy Spirit is transferred to the child. That is why the sins of the father is visited upon his children for 3 to 4 generations. Live not according to God's law and the Holy Spirit is diminished. The children do not receive as big a portion. As one grows the Spirit the Spirit's small voice also grows in volume and frequency. And it becomes easier to keep God's law. As one diminishes the Spirit the Spirit's small voice gets even smaller and it becomes more difficult to keep God's law. Salvation does not work like people think it does. It is not about, '"you" are a sinner and therefore God won't save "you"'. It is about, 'you are a sinner and as a consequence you have diminished the free gift of the Spirit given to you by birth to the point at which you cannot be saved'.

Speaking of the Christ Spirit within man God says.

10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.
11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.

Strive against the Christ Spirit within and one becomes as nothing. Strive with the Christ Spirit to keep God's law and Isa 41:14 applies.

14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.


I know all this is complicated and you won't be taught any of this by any church. But forgiveness is not God saying, "I forgive you". And repentance is not saying to God, "I repent". Repentance is living according to God's law. And God's forgiveness is being saved on the day of Salvation.

We are saved by grace is a true statement but it does not mean what is taught. It means, "I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer" !

This is what you have taught before and it makes sense to me.

There are many who teach the idea that Jesus is a scapegoat, a whipping boy, who they can beat and punish when they feel guilty and once they are convinced Jesus the innocent won't complain about them transferring their burden on to him, they continue to satisfying their carnal desires (cause next week they get to repent again, err, transfer responsibility to an innocent person so they don't have to suffer.

[Valo]

Charity is the pure love of Christ because only by charity can man be saved. And that charity begins at birth because, every person (that is not a tare) has the Spirit of Christ in them from birth.

The pure love of Christ, that is the only good way I know how to judge myself is with charity. I think I want to judge my feelings, my thoughts, my actions with charity.

Christ said love your neighbor and your enemy.

Is the Son of Perdition a friend or an enemy?

And does it matter when it comes to how I judge?

Maybe charity cannot be used to condemn. Maybe that's part of it. Can ought but Christ see the most desperate and fallen of us and extend compassion and love towards them? Seems justice is the Lord's.

This is how it works. Michael TGP (and his greater Spirit, the Holy Spirit) is the Son. Not only can Michael fully indwell someone like he indwelt Adam, Enoch and Jesus as well as some others, a small portion of his Spirit is in all of us. It is a symbiotic relationship. By living according to God's laws we actually grow the portion of the Holy Spirit within us. In the parable of the ten talents the talents we are given is that portion of the Holy Spirit that is within us. When a man fathers a child a mustard sized portion of the Holy Spirit is transferred to the child. That is why the sins of the father is visited upon his children for 3 to 4 generations. Live not according to God's law and the Holy Spirit is diminished. The children do not receive as big a portion. As one grows the Spirit the Spirit's small voice also grows in volume and frequency. And it becomes easier to keep God's law. As one diminishes the Spirit the Spirit's small voice gets even smaller and it becomes more difficult to keep God's law. Salvation does not work like people think it does. It is not about, '"you" are a sinner and therefore God won't save "you"'. It is about, 'you are a sinner and as a consequence you have diminished the free gift of the Spirit given to you by birth to the point at which you cannot be saved'.

Speaking of the Christ Spirit within man God says.

10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.
11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.

Strive against the Christ Spirit within and one becomes as nothing. Strive with the Christ Spirit to keep God's law and Isa 41:14 applies.

14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.


I know all this is complicated and you won't be taught any of this by any church. But forgiveness is not God saying, "I forgive you". And repentance is not saying to God, "I repent". Repentance is living according to God's law. And God's forgiveness is being saved on the day of Salvation.

We are saved by grace is a true statement but it does not mean what is taught. It means, "I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer" !

Also thanks for the scriptures.

[Valo]

The man of sin, the son of perdition is a good guy. He is the DS. See the logic. The DS is from above just like Jesus was from above and those given to Jesus were all from above. Only one of those from above is not kept from evil. We know from Isaiah that the DS is a sinner. If there is only one that is not kept from evil then the DS has to be the one.

That is what I understood even though this was a new idea until I read it a few days ago. But the logic makes sense to me and in maybe coming at it from a different angel which I do want to share but later.

[Valo]

The man of sin, the son of perdition is a good guy. He is the DS. See the logic. The DS is from above just like Jesus was from above and those given to Jesus were all from above. Only one of those from above is not kept from evil. We know from Isaiah that the DS is a sinner. If there is only one that is not kept from evil then the DS has to be the one.

That is what I understood even though this was a new idea until I read it a few days ago. But the logic makes sense to me and in maybe coming at it from a different angel which I do want to share but later.

Jesus taught us to love not only our neighbor but also our enemy. In fact he went so far as to say that we should do good to those who despitefully use us. Turn the other cheek. Forgive, 70 times 70. We have been commanded to consider the most wretched of beings as ourselves. All of us has probably denied the Son a million times and worse still have betrayed Him for a pot of porridge.

If the DS is the Son of Perdition he would be the "enemy" to most who call themselves Christians. Such a scenario would also be inline with the gospel that there needs to be a means to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Who has eyes and ears to see and a heart that feels except the meek and lowly in heart? Who can possess the pure love of Christ but his sons and daughters?