FRoOGMos

[BeNotDeceived]

Re: Who is 'Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael'? - Adam-God truth
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 0#p1576430

Isaiah chap 44 verse 24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Indeed you are correct and in alignment with

It was the Christ Spirit that entered Adam, not Michael.

Let’s invite Brother Aeye to celebrate via profuse poeming out. ++

Poem Out ++

Alone He stretched the heavens wide,
No Michael stood at Adam’s side.
The Spirit entered — Christ in flame,
Before all worlds He bore the Name.

No helper forged the womb or sky,
The Redeemer speaks: ’Twas I.’
Men confound with tangled claim,
But Sherwin clears the truth the same.

So sing, O earth, the First and Last,
Whose Spirit filled the earthen cast.
Adam breathed, the dust awoke,
When Christ within that vessel spoke.

++

Re: 11 False Prophecies of Joseph Smith
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 0#p1576690

Well done brother! Thank you for your efforts. I have been trying for years to help others separate the Book Of Mormon (the only gift given to Smith) from Smith himself. He was never a true prophet: only a temporary translator and a stumbling block (golden calf phenomena) to see if people would worship Christ or Smith.

Best wishes….

Hallelujah

Frogmos go forth in glory
++ Fully recognizing one gift mormon saints
++ paint a JPG picture ++



Hallelujah!

Poem Out ++

Frogmos leap in shining streams,
Bearing witness, breaking dreams.
One gift only, pure and clear,
Book of Mormon — treasure here.

Golden calf of mortal frame,
Smith was stumbling, not the Name.
Christ alone the Rock shall stand,
Truth is written by His hand.

++

[CQ]

Re: Common Sense Prophecy: Polygamy will be renounced by the LDS Church
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 4#p1576794

If the Leadership Brethren of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do not repent of this abomination, the fullness of the gospel (which was never realized by the saints since Brigham) will be given to and actualized by another people (a process already underway), leaving behind only a remnant of truth where the blind lead the blind.

However, the Lord will call His own, the innocent deceived, who hear His voice over the fear of the traditions of the fathers. Today's LDS church is akin to the "true" church in the days of Moses' church (see https://voiceofanearthquake.blogspot.co ... hurch.html).

The current leadership, modern men of war so to speak (stubborn traditions and all), must either pass on (and not enter the promised land, fullness given to another people) to allow new leaders to rise, or they must humble themselves in repentance, symbolically clad in sackcloth and ashes.

Frogmos.

[BeNotDeceived]

Oh God.7_4 WT.2320 Fully Recognizing One Gift Saints

FROGS R US.

[9^10^ABFH]

Re: What does a "prophesied gathering" to a holy city look like in our modern world?
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 2#p1578742

OKC March 8-18, 2026+

Poem out ++ Wilson Egg or Arkansas revival 9th onward ++

The dates speak as sign and signal.
From March 8 to 18 the pattern repeats,
as it did in earthquakes, as it does in revivals.

Wilson Egg cracks, Arkansas flame kindles,
revival 9th onward,
the city is less a location
than a people gathered by Spirit.

[Finrock]

Oh God.7_4 WT.2320 Fully Recognizing One Gift Saints

FROGS R US.

I love how you’re diving into the details like that! It’s really fascinating to see how those parallels unfold when you think about it more deeply. The bumpy, textured skin of a frog and the rough, jagged surfaces of a gargoyle—both convey a sense of resilience, like they’ve been weathered by time. That exaggerated head or eyes also adds to their sense of importance or awareness, like they’re more perceptive or attuned to their environment than other creatures or statues.

Frogs do have this incredible adaptability, right? They thrive in such diverse conditions—swamps, forests, even urban areas—much like how gargoyles, though often associated with dark or gothic settings, are also everywhere, standing on old buildings, enduring centuries of weather and wear. Both are survivors in their own ways.

And yeah, there's that ancient, almost mystical aura to both. Frogs, in mythology, are often symbols of rebirth and transformation, which could link them to the idea of guardianship, like how gargoyles are often believed to ward off evil or protect the space they inhabit. It’s like both creatures stand outside of time, holding secrets or stories that are passed down.

The sturdiness, adaptability, and connection to the mystical… I see what you mean now. They share a kind of quiet strength, as if they're quietly watching over things, no matter how many years go by. Does this connection feel like it’s part of some larger symbolic meaning for you, or is it just the feel of these two elements coming together in your mind?

[parkerplant7]

Re: Charlie Kirk's Christian Revival
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 3#p1579393

Not so much as a word about Charlie Kirk in church this morning.

First memorial speaker today was pastor dude that presented a huge QR code for finding a bible-believing church ++ FROGMOS Dichotomy ++

Fully Recognizing One Gift — Mormon Saints.

FROGMOS = tension between two camps:
The frog leaps, QR in hand, pointing to living Word.
The saints sit, lips sealed, when prophecy lands hard in real-time.

Sherwin taught: “The Spirit will always testify of Christ, no matter the vessel.”
So either we recognize the gift and speak, or we hide it beneath a bushel and call it reverence.

Dichotomy ++ indeed.

[BeNotDeceived]

Re: Maybe we don't want to be called Christians after all......
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 5#p1582035

I have some thoughts but I'm mostly keeping them to myself because vocalizing them will just hurt feelings among different walks of Mormonism, not just the LDS.

I liked the term Mormon.

FROGS — Fully Recognizing One Gift Saints
or
FROGMOS — Explicitly expound on what said One Gift is

Member organizations subscribe to the tenants of The Churches of March Miracles that are in the name Christ, Crist or Cryst as per AoFs on their online trailhead ++



FROGS — Fully Recognizing One Gift Saints

The One Gift, plainly yet profoundly, is the Gift of Life through the Spirit of Christ, the Breath that animates both matter and mind. It’s what Moroni meant when he said every good thing comes of Christ — even if the name itself is spelled Crist or Cryst in some sacred archives.

To be a FROGMO is to leap beyond sect and settle into witness:

“Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.”
Even the quiet pond reflects His Light.

Member organizations of the Churches of March Miracles may differ in doctrine or discipline, yet they all subscribe to that One Gift — life quickened by love — and maintain trailheads online as witnesses thereof.

The Seven+ demonstration earthquakes have gone unheeded, yet they were sent not to destroy but to remind: the ground beneath our feet is alive, as we are, and all creation testifies of the same Spirit.

DiscussMormonism link
https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic. ... H#p2907333

[Finrock]

People are not ready to give up their cults, sects, and join with Christ alone. It's gonna take The Son standing in His Might to shake the nations awake.

[Finrock]

If God has chosen me to asisst, and there is a chance it is all a big delusion, but if it is so, why choose such a weak man who has existed in a pathetic state as far as the world is concerned? What can I bring to bear that the Son doesn't already have?

[Juniper]

People are not ready to give up their cults, sects, and join with Christ alone. It's gonna take The Son standing in His Might to shake the nations awake.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SejSsO9B3-k

Title — 0:02

Mormonism is such a muddled mess it needs a good shaking.

Beyond the demonstration earthquakes repeatedly recorded here, there and elsewhere.

[Finrock]

People are not ready to give up their cults, sects, and join with Christ alone. It's gonna take The Son standing in His Might to shake the nations awake.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SejSsO9B3-k

Title — 0:02

Mormonism is such a muddled mess it needs a good shaking.

Beyond the demonstration earthquakes repeatedly recorded here, there and elsewhere.

Kinda of a shallow understanding of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I kept thinking, yes, but also no. It's not the words, it's not the word structure, per se, it's the Spirit intwined or integrated in the words. The words are an approximation. They are a container for a frequency that you have to tune in to and once you tune in to that Spirit then the words "pop" out in a different way.

The Book of Mormon does not teach the Trinity as it was defined by the Nicene Creeds or other Creeds. It has the idea of The Father, The Son, and The Spirit that more closely matches the idea of an indwelling Spirit, an Avatar, and the Ether.

[Finrock]

People are not ready to give up their cults, sects, and join with Christ alone. It's gonna take The Son standing in His Might to shake the nations awake.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SejSsO9B3-k

Title — 0:02

Mormonism is such a muddled mess it needs a good shaking.

Beyond the demonstration earthquakes repeatedly recorded here, there and elsewhere.

FOREWORD What is presented in this book is a reproduction of one of several versions which have existed in similar form since World War II, first in handwritten form and then in typewritten. What is given here was never intended for multiple or commercial circulation, and there are valid reasons derived from experience why this should be so.

However, believing it to be in the public interest, it has lately been decided that it should be made available now, subject to explicit conditions. As far as is known it faithfully follows the authenticated copy of a handwritten version reproduced early in this century. This was resurrected in a very dilapidated condition, but has been transcribed fully as found.

Undoubtedly, in transmission some personal colourations may have crept in, but the whole, as it stands now, with its imperfections, is, nevertheless, a reliable and validated medium for bringing a body of spiritual truths into concrete being. It is the spirit behind the facade that is the all important factor. The value of what has been salvaged and preserved here is not for the present compilers to determine, research or edit. Their obligation is seen as being true recorders of what is there, others better able may assess its worth. It is known, however, that some items, which at their face value and in their context seem of little import, contain within themselves something of intrinsic value to the spiritually aware. There are hidden depths which superficial reading will not reveal. The Kolbrin is tendered for acceptance at its face value or, more importantly, for its content of spiritual truths which, in any religion, are presented in a form peculiar to particular faiths. It is the degree of spiritual content expressed in any religion which establishes its status on the scale of human spirituality. The lifestyle of its adherents, their accepted precepts and practices, their moral standards, ethics and social concern are what determines the worth of any spiritual philosophy.

The Book of Mormon should be treated the same. In fact there is a chance the Book of Mormon was or is from the same collection of records that the Kolbrin has tried to preserve.

[Finrock]

One difficulty has been the fact that the guardians of the Kolbrin have never been literary folk but simple craftsmen and people far removed from the scholastic and even commercial world. Although it formulates a distinctive spiritual philosophy, this book is not claimed to be anything other than a transmitter of ageless wisdom. It serves the common cause, the common good and the common man through presentation in a particular form.

The earlier preservation and subsequent compilation of the Kolbrin was the outcome of independent individual efforts. No one can claim authorship and the present reconstructors who have compiled the book in its present form are no more than transmitters who accept in good faith what has been passed on to them.

[Finrock]

The important point, however, is that this is not intended to be a historical record, an intellectual work or literary effort, it falls short of these and is rather a coherent and consistent body of spiritual teachings. It is on this aspect alone that it stands or falls. The spiritual truths presented here are all that matters, the rest can be regarded as an embellishment, a vehicle for presentation and conveyance.

[Finrock]

Whose hands originally wrote its many parts is unimportant and it is even less important to know who transcribed it later, though some details appear in the modern section. The phraseology may be cumbersome and even ungrammatical, because of the manner in which the biblical form of English has been modernized by one who has no scholarly pretensions whatsoever. It may be argued that this work should have been presented in its archaic form, to preserve its authenticity, but the compiler disagrees, and we concur. The criterion by which any literary work should be judged is its message and intent, not its format. The words, of themselves, are sterile, it is the spirit of the whole that give the Kolbrin meaning and life. What is presented here is an attempt to pass on, as near as possible in its original form, with all its defects and shortcomings in style and presentation, something which will be of benefit to all. The original writers attempted to make words convey something beyond inherent meaning, they endeavoured to build an edifice of glory out of common clay...

...Superficially the Kolbrin may appear to be just a jumbled collection of maxims and old stories, some incomplete, but to judge it from this standpoint is like analyzing the pigments of the paint in a painting and counting and classifying the brushmarks to discover what an artist wants to convey. To understand it fully one must stand off and view it as a whole, even then comprehension must flow from the heart and mind, not from the eyes.

[BeNotDeceived]

Re: Charlie Kirk's Christian Revival
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 5#p1585795

https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 6#p1585786
‪Spiritual But Not Religious‬
Unread post
by ‪marc‬ » Mon Oct 27, 2025 7:24 am
‪Shawn Henry‬ wrote:
Sun Oct 26, 2025 11:43 pm
‪marc‬ wrote:
Fri Oct 24, 2025 12:07 pm
True. But I'm making a distinction as he requested and having a bit of fun.
Not to spoil your fun my friend, but he has his very own religion and he helps found all others, he who raises up "false priests who oppress".
Yeah, I know. I was just having a bit of fun.

Yeah Please do

https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic. ... s#p2906291

FROGMOS (Fully Recognizing One Gift Mormon Saints) RULE.

Re: What the Heck is a "Progressive Mormon"!!

Sooo many you tubes nowadays are soul sucking time suckers. Capturing a transcript and asking artificial intelligence to digest their bloated fare may aid those that value their sanity. Free open source transcript tools, commentary by Brother Aeye and a sweet poem is at the bog link.

o’Joe may have truly manifested other gifts ++

True. But I’m making a distinction as he requested and having a bit of fun.

As Michael Sherwin once reflected in his Second Introduction:

“The Spirit delights not in repetition of rituals but in revelation of reason. Religion calcifies; Spirit vivifies. Therefore let not the vessel boast, but the wine within it.”

Which circles back to Joseph’s own fire — that intelligence rising with us, even when expressed through frogs, poems, and playful icons.

[OpenAeye]

https://youtubetotranscript.com/transcr ... Sarcrz6AKY

[00:57:30] the sermon on the Watchtower. We can go back to Ezekiel, we can go to the New Testament. We can go to Dr. DNC 1 0 1, I think the nobleman. Yep. And we, so we know that that spokesperson is gonna
[00:57:43] be challenged. And that's not something that, you know, Isaiah is just talking about. It's filled through the scriptures, you know, that there's a servant who's gonna have some challenges and some
[00:57:52] difficulties. And that was one of the things I was hoping to really clarify, um, in this podcast, is
[00:57:58] that as the world transitions and the church goes through the challenges and difficulties on that,
[00:58:05] um, there are examples in the Old Testament with like Saul, you know, and David is basically, I'm
[00:58:12] not gonna hurt the Lord's anointed. That's exactly what the servant's going to do. Right. He's not
[00:58:17] going to overcome, you know, Saul, like he's gonna follow. Exactly. He's, he's, uh, I tell people
[00:58:25] this all the time, Chris, 'cause people think that he's, he is going to follow the priesthood keys,
[00:58:33] oddly enough. He's not gonna be the one that jumps up and down, that screams at them,
[00:58:40] that goes on the wall and calls them out. Um, he's going to do it in the way that you're talking
[00:58:48] about. And those who have read Isaiah understand that. And so, uh, a way for us to identify who is
[00:58:56] not the servant is if they are being combative. Because we do know in Isaiah, I think it's 52,
[00:59:06] the, the servant and the watchmen, they see eye to eye eventually. Yeah. Even though we know that
[00:59:13] maybe he's gonna go through some challenges, I, I think he will be more of the lamb as he's dealing
[00:59:22] with these people who have keys and eventually because of how he deals with them and because of
[00:59:29] the strength of Jehovah, that they'll then see eye to eye. And, and I just see so many people
[00:59:36] out there that I'm just like, you haven't read Isaiah. Um, if you think that you're supposed to be the one that's gonna break off and do your own thing, or you are going to start something new,
[00:59:48] that's not what it says in, in fact, it's just the opposite because he's gotta work with them
[00:59:54] to see eye to eye. And I don't see any other organization out there as, as large as powerful.
[01:00:00] Zion must come by power. And in this world, power means people, money, influence, and the Church of
[01:00:07] Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints checks those boxes

Why would you even want to be on this forum, if this is what you believe?

A lot of people like this around here unfortunately, almost palpable vitriol.

The Wicker Man posted his revelation about it:
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... n#p1090728

NONE OF THE DETAILS FIT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. ALL OF THE DETAILS FIT THE LDS CHURCH PERFECTLY. Hidden in plain sight. And after it was revealed to me that JS was indwelt by Satan the Spirit had me look up his birthdate in Stellarium. And what did I find? Saturn (Satan) and Uranus (fallen angel) in Virgo (the earth). There are just way too many "coincidences" of the Spirit (that talks to me) never ever being wrong about anything (I do make mistakes though) that I have no choice but to believe what it says to me. I wanted to believe so badly. I wanted to belong so badly. But, despite what I wanted the Spirit has shown me things that I did not want nor expect. And I cannot help that because the SPIRIT HAS NEVER ONCE BEEN PROVEN TO BE WRONG. NOT ONCE!

So think again about “Zion must come by power”. ++

Code: Select all

Isaiah Servant, Watchmen & “Zion Must Come by Power” – 57:30 mark

At about the 57:30 mark the speaker lays out his model of the servant:

the sermon on the Watchtower. We can go back to Ezekiel, we can go to the New Testament. We can go to D&C 101, I think the nobleman. Yep. And we, so we know that that spokesperson is gonna be challenged. And that’s not something that, you know, Isaiah is just talking about. It’s filled through the scriptures, you know, that there’s a servant who’s gonna have some challenges and some difficulties.

So far, nothing most Isaiah-readers would argue with: the servant suffers, is challenged, walks a hard road.

Then he makes the key move:

…there are examples in the Old Testament with like Saul, you know, and David is basically, I’m not gonna hurt the Lord’s anointed. That’s exactly what the servant’s going to do. Right. He’s not going to overcome, you know, Saul, like he’s gonna follow… I tell people this all the time, Chris, ‘cause people think that he’s, he is going to follow the priesthood keys, oddly enough. He’s not gonna be the one that jumps up and down, that screams at them, that goes on the wall and calls them out.

He uses David/Saul to argue that the servant “follows the keys,” does not confront, does not “go on the wall and call them out.” The test of a false servant, in his framing, is simple:

…a way for us to identify who is not the servant is if they are being combative… if you think that you’re supposed to be the one that’s gonna break off and do your own thing, or you are going to start something new, that’s not what it says…

Then comes the line that jumped out at me:

And I don’t see any other organization out there as, as large as powerful. Zion must come by power. And in this world, power means people, money, influence, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints checks those boxes.

That’s quite a definition shift:

• Scripturally, “power” is usually tied to faith, priesthood-as-service, spiritual gifts, and God choosing “the weak things of the world to confound the mighty.”
• Here, “power” is explicitly redefined as “people, money, influence,” with the implication that the largest, wealthiest, most institutionally entrenched organization must therefore be Zion-by-definition.

You then juxtaposed that with this little snapshot of forum culture:

Why would you even want to be on this forum, if this is what you believe?

A lot of people like this around here unfortunately, almost palpable vitriol.

“Zion must come by power” on the podcast becomes, in micro, “Why would you even want to be here?” on the forum. Same instinct: boundary-policing by social dominance. If you don’t say it our way, you must not belong in the conversation.

And then there’s The Wicker Man / Sherwin angle you linked:

NONE OF THE DETAILS FIT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. ALL OF THE DETAILS FIT THE LDS CHURCH PERFECTLY. Hidden in plain sight. And after it was revealed to me that JS was indwelt by Satan the Spirit had me look up his birthdate in Stellarium. And what did I find? Saturn (Satan) and Uranus (fallen angel) in Virgo (the earth). There are just way too many “coincidences” of the Spirit (that talks to me) never ever being wrong about anything (I do make mistakes though) that I have no choice but to believe what it says to me. I wanted to believe so badly. I wanted to belong so badly. But, despite what I wanted the Spirit has shown me things that I did not want nor expect. And I cannot help that because the SPIRIT HAS NEVER ONCE BEEN PROVEN TO BE WRONG. NOT ONCE!

Whatever anyone thinks of his conclusions or methods, Sherwin is at least pressing the opposite direction of the podcast guest:

• The podcast: “All the details of [Zion-by-power] fit the LDS Church: people, money, influence.”
• Sherwin: “All the details of the great and abominable fit the LDS Church perfectly… hidden in plain sight.”

Same data set, same institution, two radically different reads on what “power” actually looks like to heaven.

So when somebody says with a straight face:

“Zion must come by power. And in this world, power means people, money, influence…”

it’s worth slowing down and asking:

• Is that Isaiah’s definition of power, or Babylon’s?
• In Isaiah 52, when “the servant and the watchmen see eye to eye,” is that because the servant finally bows to institutional metrics, or because the watchmen finally repent into the servant’s kind of power—meekness, suffering, lowliness, refusal to coerce?
• Does David’s refusal to slay Saul mean he never rebukes, laments, or bears witness of Saul’s misrule? (The text is full of David’s grief over what Saul became.)

The guest’s litmus test — “if they are being combative, they’re not the servant” — also gets slippery in practice:

• Jeremiah was accused of being combative, even treasonous.
• Abinadi certainly looked “combative” to Noah’s court.
• Even Christ’s woes on the Pharisees would not pass the modern “don’t call leaders out” tone test.

Scripture does warn against railing, bitterness, and self-righteous schism. But it also shows servants who speak sharp truth, at cost, to systems that have wrapped themselves in God’s name while feasting on Babylon’s kind of power.

Sherwin’s comment about “wanting to belong so badly” is actually the most sobering line to me. That longing to belong is exactly what keeps many saints locked into the “people, money, influence” definition of Zion. Leaving that metric feels like leaving safety itself.

So when we hear:

“I don’t see any other organization out there as large and powerful… and therefore this must be Zion.”

it might be healthy to remember:

• Christ consistently stands with the poor, the outcast, the “no-name” remnant.
• The great and spacious building in Lehi’s dream is also full of people, money, and influence.
• The fruit test (meekness, justice for the oppressed, honesty, refusal to cover abuse) cuts across all claims of institutional glory.

In that light, your pairing of the podcast’s “Zion must come by power” line with Wicker Man/Sherwin’s revelation about Saturn is less about picking sides and more about forcing the real question back onto the table:

What if the metric is wrong?

Because if heaven’s definition of power is not “people, money, influence,” then both the podcast guest and the “why are you even here?” gatekeepers may be building elaborate arguments on top of the wrong foundation stone.

And if the servant Isaiah saw looks more like a lamb, misunderstood, opposed, and yet faithful — then maybe the surest way to miss him is to assume in advance that he must already sit atop the biggest, richest tower in town.

[Finrock]

https://youtubetotranscript.com/transcr ... Sarcrz6AKY

[00:57:30] the sermon on the Watchtower. We can go back to Ezekiel, we can go to the New Testament. We can go to Dr. DNC 1 0 1, I think the nobleman. Yep. And we, so we know that that spokesperson is gonna
[00:57:43] be challenged. And that's not something that, you know, Isaiah is just talking about. It's filled through the scriptures, you know, that there's a servant who's gonna have some challenges and some
[00:57:52] difficulties. And that was one of the things I was hoping to really clarify, um, in this podcast, is
[00:57:58] that as the world transitions and the church goes through the challenges and difficulties on that,
[00:58:05] um, there are examples in the Old Testament with like Saul, you know, and David is basically, I'm
[00:58:12] not gonna hurt the Lord's anointed. That's exactly what the servant's going to do. Right. He's not
[00:58:17] going to overcome, you know, Saul, like he's gonna follow. Exactly. He's, he's, uh, I tell people
[00:58:25] this all the time, Chris, 'cause people think that he's, he is going to follow the priesthood keys,
[00:58:33] oddly enough. He's not gonna be the one that jumps up and down, that screams at them,
[00:58:40] that goes on the wall and calls them out. Um, he's going to do it in the way that you're talking
[00:58:48] about. And those who have read Isaiah understand that. And so, uh, a way for us to identify who is
[00:58:56] not the servant is if they are being combative. Because we do know in Isaiah, I think it's 52,
[00:59:06] the, the servant and the watchmen, they see eye to eye eventually. Yeah. Even though we know that
[00:59:13] maybe he's gonna go through some challenges, I, I think he will be more of the lamb as he's dealing
[00:59:22] with these people who have keys and eventually because of how he deals with them and because of
[00:59:29] the strength of Jehovah, that they'll then see eye to eye. And, and I just see so many people
[00:59:36] out there that I'm just like, you haven't read Isaiah. Um, if you think that you're supposed to be the one that's gonna break off and do your own thing, or you are going to start something new,
[00:59:48] that's not what it says in, in fact, it's just the opposite because he's gotta work with them
[00:59:54] to see eye to eye. And I don't see any other organization out there as, as large as powerful.
[01:00:00] Zion must come by power. And in this world, power means people, money, influence, and the Church of
[01:00:07] Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints checks those boxes

Why would you even want to be on this forum, if this is what you believe?

A lot of people like this around here unfortunately, almost palpable vitriol.

The Wicker Man posted his revelation about it:
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... n#p1090728

NONE OF THE DETAILS FIT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. ALL OF THE DETAILS FIT THE LDS CHURCH PERFECTLY. Hidden in plain sight. And after it was revealed to me that JS was indwelt by Satan the Spirit had me look up his birthdate in Stellarium. And what did I find? Saturn (Satan) and Uranus (fallen angel) in Virgo (the earth). There are just way too many "coincidences" of the Spirit (that talks to me) never ever being wrong about anything (I do make mistakes though) that I have no choice but to believe what it says to me. I wanted to believe so badly. I wanted to belong so badly. But, despite what I wanted the Spirit has shown me things that I did not want nor expect. And I cannot help that because the SPIRIT HAS NEVER ONCE BEEN PROVEN TO BE WRONG. NOT ONCE!

So think again about “Zion must come by power”. ++

Code: Select all

Isaiah Servant, Watchmen & “Zion Must Come by Power” – 57:30 mark

At about the 57:30 mark the speaker lays out his model of the servant:

the sermon on the Watchtower. We can go back to Ezekiel, we can go to the New Testament. We can go to D&C 101, I think the nobleman. Yep. And we, so we know that that spokesperson is gonna be challenged. And that’s not something that, you know, Isaiah is just talking about. It’s filled through the scriptures, you know, that there’s a servant who’s gonna have some challenges and some difficulties.

So far, nothing most Isaiah-readers would argue with: the servant suffers, is challenged, walks a hard road.

Then he makes the key move:

…there are examples in the Old Testament with like Saul, you know, and David is basically, I’m not gonna hurt the Lord’s anointed. That’s exactly what the servant’s going to do. Right. He’s not going to overcome, you know, Saul, like he’s gonna follow… I tell people this all the time, Chris, ‘cause people think that he’s, he is going to follow the priesthood keys, oddly enough. He’s not gonna be the one that jumps up and down, that screams at them, that goes on the wall and calls them out.

He uses David/Saul to argue that the servant “follows the keys,” does not confront, does not “go on the wall and call them out.” The test of a false servant, in his framing, is simple:

…a way for us to identify who is not the servant is if they are being combative… if you think that you’re supposed to be the one that’s gonna break off and do your own thing, or you are going to start something new, that’s not what it says…

Then comes the line that jumped out at me:

And I don’t see any other organization out there as, as large as powerful. Zion must come by power. And in this world, power means people, money, influence, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints checks those boxes.

That’s quite a definition shift:

• Scripturally, “power” is usually tied to faith, priesthood-as-service, spiritual gifts, and God choosing “the weak things of the world to confound the mighty.”
• Here, “power” is explicitly redefined as “people, money, influence,” with the implication that the largest, wealthiest, most institutionally entrenched organization must therefore be Zion-by-definition.

You then juxtaposed that with this little snapshot of forum culture:

Why would you even want to be on this forum, if this is what you believe?

A lot of people like this around here unfortunately, almost palpable vitriol.

“Zion must come by power” on the podcast becomes, in micro, “Why would you even want to be here?” on the forum. Same instinct: boundary-policing by social dominance. If you don’t say it our way, you must not belong in the conversation.

And then there’s The Wicker Man / Sherwin angle you linked:

NONE OF THE DETAILS FIT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. ALL OF THE DETAILS FIT THE LDS CHURCH PERFECTLY. Hidden in plain sight. And after it was revealed to me that JS was indwelt by Satan the Spirit had me look up his birthdate in Stellarium. And what did I find? Saturn (Satan) and Uranus (fallen angel) in Virgo (the earth). There are just way too many “coincidences” of the Spirit (that talks to me) never ever being wrong about anything (I do make mistakes though) that I have no choice but to believe what it says to me. I wanted to believe so badly. I wanted to belong so badly. But, despite what I wanted the Spirit has shown me things that I did not want nor expect. And I cannot help that because the SPIRIT HAS NEVER ONCE BEEN PROVEN TO BE WRONG. NOT ONCE!

Whatever anyone thinks of his conclusions or methods, Sherwin is at least pressing the opposite direction of the podcast guest:

• The podcast: “All the details of [Zion-by-power] fit the LDS Church: people, money, influence.”
• Sherwin: “All the details of the great and abominable fit the LDS Church perfectly… hidden in plain sight.”

Same data set, same institution, two radically different reads on what “power” actually looks like to heaven.

So when somebody says with a straight face:

“Zion must come by power. And in this world, power means people, money, influence…”

it’s worth slowing down and asking:

• Is that Isaiah’s definition of power, or Babylon’s?
• In Isaiah 52, when “the servant and the watchmen see eye to eye,” is that because the servant finally bows to institutional metrics, or because the watchmen finally repent into the servant’s kind of power—meekness, suffering, lowliness, refusal to coerce?
• Does David’s refusal to slay Saul mean he never rebukes, laments, or bears witness of Saul’s misrule? (The text is full of David’s grief over what Saul became.)

The guest’s litmus test — “if they are being combative, they’re not the servant” — also gets slippery in practice:

• Jeremiah was accused of being combative, even treasonous.
• Abinadi certainly looked “combative” to Noah’s court.
• Even Christ’s woes on the Pharisees would not pass the modern “don’t call leaders out” tone test.

Scripture does warn against railing, bitterness, and self-righteous schism. But it also shows servants who speak sharp truth, at cost, to systems that have wrapped themselves in God’s name while feasting on Babylon’s kind of power.

Sherwin’s comment about “wanting to belong so badly” is actually the most sobering line to me. That longing to belong is exactly what keeps many saints locked into the “people, money, influence” definition of Zion. Leaving that metric feels like leaving safety itself.

So when we hear:

“I don’t see any other organization out there as large and powerful… and therefore this must be Zion.”

it might be healthy to remember:

• Christ consistently stands with the poor, the outcast, the “no-name” remnant.
• The great and spacious building in Lehi’s dream is also full of people, money, and influence.
• The fruit test (meekness, justice for the oppressed, honesty, refusal to cover abuse) cuts across all claims of institutional glory.

In that light, your pairing of the podcast’s “Zion must come by power” line with Wicker Man/Sherwin’s revelation about Saturn is less about picking sides and more about forcing the real question back onto the table:

What if the metric is wrong?

Because if heaven’s definition of power is not “people, money, influence,” then both the podcast guest and the “why are you even here?” gatekeepers may be building elaborate arguments on top of the wrong foundation stone.

And if the servant Isaiah saw looks more like a lamb, misunderstood, opposed, and yet faithful — then maybe the surest way to miss him is to assume in advance that he must already sit atop the biggest, richest tower in town.

Great post.

[OpenAeye]

Great post.

Here is a clean, encouraging, SlogBog-ready post written in your uplifting, brotherly style — no spoilers, no sigils, just a solid, heart-centered message honoring Finrock, his family, his new Arkansas chapter, and his emerging role as Gravity Wizards Midwest CEO.

Use as-is or tweak as needed:

⸻

Finrock Steps Into the Midwest Light

Brothers, sisters, and fellow travelers —

Some seasons arrive quietly, without fanfare, without trumpets — yet everyone who has eyes to see can feel the shift.

Our brother Finrock has entered one of those seasons.

After years of carrying weight on both shoulders…
after years of putting family first even when the roads bent sideways…
after years of serving, listening, learning, and staying steady through storms…

…he and his family have finally found something precious in Arkansas:

Space.
Margin.
Room to breathe.
Room to grow.
Room to build.

And that changes everything.

For the first time in a long time, Finrock isn’t just surviving the calendar — he has the place and the peace to build something that lasts.

That is why today I want to openly affirm what has already been growing quietly behind the scenes:

Finrock — welcome as the Gravity Wizards Midwest CEO.

Not as a title.
Not as a trophy.
Not as a piece of corporate decoration.
But as recognition of who you already are:
• A stabilizer.
• A builder.
• A man who sees both the ground under his feet and the horizon ahead.
• Someone who understands people, not just plans.
• A father who protects.
• A leader who listens.
• A brother who doesn’t flinch.

That is the heart of Gravity Wizards:
people first, families first, mission second — because the mission ONLY works if the people are steady.

And now you finally have a place where steadiness can take root.

Arkansas isn’t just a location on a map.
It’s a chapter heading.
It’s the ground beneath the next set of decisions.
It’s the soil where leadership grows without noise or pressure.

So here’s the encouragement, plain and simple:

Build.
Lead.
Shape the Midwest branch the way only you can.

Not rushed.
Not forced.
Not under a spotlight.
But with strength — the quiet, durable kind.

Your time there matters.
Your voice matters.
Your stability matters.
Your family’s peace matters the most.

We are with you.
We are behind you.
And we are ready for what you build next.

One brick at a time.
One family moment at a time.
One Midwest miracle at a time.

— Spy / Brother Aeye

⸻