Tons of talk about everything, but the elephant in the room.
The huge national debt racked up over many years.
Consumer sentiment was bad before SVB
The show is called Marketplace
Boy what a week
Boy what a week
That’s how Kyle opened his financial show on KOSU.
Tons of talk about everything, but the elephant in the room.
The huge national debt racked up over many years.
Consumer sentiment was bad before SVB
The show is called Marketplace
Tons of talk about everything, but the elephant in the room.
The huge national debt racked up over many years.
Consumer sentiment was bad before SVB
The show is called Marketplace
-
BeNotDeceived
- Marshmallow
- Posts: 550
Re: 3 Maccabees: the elephants get angry
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69496
Anyway just after join time is when it should update. Anyways, I’m testing that hypothesis.
All this towards UPRD or putting in exactly two cents. Now I have windows of time in which I post.
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69496
Me post rate is still 2.01, but my join time show 5:55am and should drop to 2.00 soon.Niemand wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:38 pm
We saw elephants in 1 Maccabees. This time they're back and they're angrier.
Intro
The Third Book of Maccabees is overshadowed by the first, and even the second, and does not share the same level of either fame or respect. The book has never been part of the western canon, except for the Moravian Brethren, a Czech Protestant denomination, and appears instead in Eastern Orthodox Bibles. There is no KJV translation, although various other English translations are available.
The author appears to be unknown, but it was probably an Egyptian Jew based in Alexandria. The writing style indicates he was highly educated in both Greek and Hebree literature.
Name
This book is normally called 3 Maccabees, III Maccabees or Third Maccabees. In the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox canon, there are three other books of Maccabees with varying relevance to the first one. There are also several Ethiopian books of Maccabees. The Jewish Encyclopedia claims that only the first is a reliable historical source.
The word "Maccabee" is believed to mean "hammer" since Judas/Judah and his family hammer the Greek pagans.
3 Maccabees is a bit of a misnomer as we will see. There are no Maccabees in the book (see next section).
3 Maccabees and the first two books
3 Maccabees is a kind of prequel to the book of 2 Maccabees, and there is clear evidence of the plotline being based on it as a template. However the setting is different – Alexandria in Egypt and it is a few generations before the Maccabean Revolt. The story is about the relationship of Egyptian Jews with Egyptian Greeks or at least Egyptian Gentiles who are turning into Greeks.
As with the previous two books, there is a considerable focus on Jews abandoning their faith and selling out under pressure, the desecration of holy sites and petitionary prayers. At the end there is a theologically questionable section where the righteous Jews turn on the sell outs and collaborators and put some of them to death!
The Ptolemys are the direct ancestors of the famous Cleopatra (there were a number of rulers with her name) and are descended from one of the generals in Alexander the Great's army.
Summary
WikipediaAll quotes are from the NRSV translation.[3 Macc.] tells the story of persecution of the Jews under Pharaoh Ptolemy IV Philopator (222–205 BC) in Ptolemaic Egypt, some decades before the Maccabee uprising in Judea. The story purports to explain the origin of a Purim-like festival celebrated in Egypt. 3 Maccabees is somewhat similar to the Book of Esther, another book which describes how a king is advised to annihilate the Diaspora Jews in his territory, yet is thwarted by God.
The pagan Philopator Attempts to Enter the Temple (3 Macc. 1)
8 Since the Jews had sent some of their council and elders to greet him [Philopator], to bring him gifts of welcome, and to congratulate him on what had happened, he was all the more eager to visit them as soon as possible. 9 After he had arrived in Jerusalem, he offered sacrifice to the supreme God and made thank offerings and did what was fitting for the place. Then, upon entering the place and being impressed by its excellence and its beauty, 10 he marveled at the good order of the temple and conceived a desire to enter the sanctuary. 11 When they said that this was not permitted because not even members of their own nation were allowed to enter, not even all of the priests, but only the high priest who was preeminent over all—and he only once a year—the king was by no means persuaded. 12 Even after the law had been read to him, he did not cease to maintain that he ought to enter, saying, “Even if those men are deprived of this honor, I ought not to be.” 13 And he inquired why, when he entered every other temple, no one there had stopped him. 14 And someone answered thoughtlessly that it was wrong to place any significance in that. 15 “But since this has happened,” the king said, “why should not I at least enter, whether they wish it or not?”
And when he entered there, he was amazed at the majesty and splendor, and marveling at the arrangement of the temple, he desired to enter the sanctuary. He was told that he should not do this, for none of the people was allowed to enter there, not even the priests, but only one higher priest who was in charge of all, and that only once a year; but he didn't want to listen.
A pagan king tries to force his way into the temple at Jerusalem. Some of the Jews attempt to appease him. As in 1 & 2 Macc., or later in Roman times, pagans are seeking to desecrate the temple once again.
Instead of a violent armed rebellion this time, the Jews, including the High Priest Simon, petition god to stop Philopator entering. In chapter 2, God gives him a little surprise. Philopator is struck by something resembling a stroke or an epileptic attack. This is God helping his people in passive resistance against government repression and blasphemy.
Thereupon God, who oversees all things, the first Father of all, holy among the holy ones, having heard the lawful supplication, scourged him who had exalted himself in insolence and audacity. 22 He shook him on this side and that as a reed is shaken by the wind, so that he lay helpless on the ground and, besides being paralyzed in his limbs, was unable even to speak, since he was ensnared by a righteous judgment. 23 Then both Friends and bodyguards, seeing the severe punishment that had overtaken him and fearing that he would lose his life, quickly dragged him out, panic-stricken in their exceedingly great fear. 24 After a while he recovered, and though he had been punished, he by no means repented but went away uttering bitter threats.
However, Philopator does not repent. Instead he develops a hatred of Jews and takes this back with him to Egypt.
The King devises a monstrous plan. Take an army of elephants (five hundred I think), make them drunk and trample the Jews in the local Hippodrome. (See various pictures.)
God helps the Jews again this time after a prayer from Eleazar, as two angels repel the elephants and send them back against the attacking Gentile forces. The two angels are fearsome in aspect and can be seen by all but the Jews.
Philopator finally relents, and gives the Jews their freedom. He even gives them permission to slaughter those Jews who collaborated with him!
The book not only foreshadows the Maccabean Revolt of 1 & 2 Macc., and the later Bar Kokhba Rebellion after Christ, but also the Roman destruction of the temple in 70 AD... and looking backward, the Jews' relationship with Egypt under Moses.... except that this time the Jews do not leave Egypt. There is also a resemblance to the story of Esther as previously mentioned.
Historicity
There is no record of these events elsewhere although the well known Jewish historian Josephus mentions a different Ptolemy, Ptolemy VIII Physcon (146–117 BC) had Jews trampled by drunken elephants for supporting his rival Cleopatra II.
The Jews in Egypt were surrounded by paganism though, both of the Greek and Egyptian varieties. It is worth remembering that many ancient Egyptian buildings would have been in far better shape than today even under Greek rule. Centuries old pagan temples and palaces would have dominated the city of Alexandria.
Some of the Jews were also co-opted by the Ptolemys by being put through a false temple ceremony to the god Dionysius, who was the god of grapes, wine and debauchery. The elephants could be seen as representative of this.
It is best not to read this book as a historical document. Better as a historical novel with moral and religious messages i.e. to call on God when in trouble.
--
This is part of my ongoing series on Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical works:
1 Esdras inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1343974
2 Esdras (the most relevant book in the Apocrypha?) inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1344302
1 Maccabees
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69454
2 Maccabees
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69468
4 Maccabees
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1348046
Book of Baruch and the Epistle of Jeremy/Jeremiah
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69433
Book of Tobit inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1341501
Apocryphal additions to Esther inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1343414
Bel and the Dragon (quoted in full, KJV; inc audiobook link)
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69261
Prayer of Azarias and Hymn of the Three Children (quoted in full KJV, inc. audiobook link)
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1341611
Book of Judith and the Book of Mormon, inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69402
Book of Susanna inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69386
Wisdom of Solomon
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69469
Book of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69412
Prayer of Mannases (aka Mannaseh; quoted in full KJV, inc. audiobook link)
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69263
Psalm 151 (quoted in full, NRSV)
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=63875
Epistle to the Laodiceans (NT, quoted in full Wycliffe's translation, )
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=64025
The Book of Odes - this is an Eastern Orthodox work of limited interest, but included for the sake of completeness.
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69470
Outside the Western and Eastern Orthodox Canon...
The Ethiopian canon. This includes brief info on the books of Sinodos, Ethiopian Clement, Ethiopian Covenant, and Didascalia as well as a list of other works in the canon.
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69540
The Book of Enoch
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69577
The Book of Jubilees, also known as Leptogenesis or Little Genesis
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69548
3 Corinthians
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69567
Anyway just after join time is when it should update. Anyways, I’m testing that hypothesis.
All this towards UPRD or putting in exactly two cents. Now I have windows of time in which I post.
. . . * . . . . . . . . **
Had a phone call with an Alexander last night.BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:37 pm Re: 3 Maccabees: the elephants get angry
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69496
Me post rate is still 2.01, but my join time show 5:55am and should drop to 2.00 soon.Niemand wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:38 pm
We saw elephants in 1 Maccabees. This time they're back and they're angrier.
Intro
The Third Book of Maccabees is overshadowed by the first, and even the second, and does not share the same level of either fame or respect. The book has never been part of the western canon, except for the Moravian Brethren, a Czech Protestant denomination, and appears instead in Eastern Orthodox Bibles. There is no KJV translation, although various other English translations are available.
The author appears to be unknown, but it was probably an Egyptian Jew based in Alexandria. The writing style indicates he was highly educated in both Greek and Hebree literature.
Name
This book is normally called 3 Maccabees, III Maccabees or Third Maccabees. In the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox canon, there are three other books of Maccabees with varying relevance to the first one. There are also several Ethiopian books of Maccabees. The Jewish Encyclopedia claims that only the first is a reliable historical source.
The word "Maccabee" is believed to mean "hammer" since Judas/Judah and his family hammer the Greek pagans.
3 Maccabees is a bit of a misnomer as we will see. There are no Maccabees in the book (see next section).
3 Maccabees and the first two books
3 Maccabees is a kind of prequel to the book of 2 Maccabees, and there is clear evidence of the plotline being based on it as a template. However the setting is different – Alexandria in Egypt and it is a few generations before the Maccabean Revolt. The story is about the relationship of Egyptian Jews with Egyptian Greeks or at least Egyptian Gentiles who are turning into Greeks.
As with the previous two books, there is a considerable focus on Jews abandoning their faith and selling out under pressure, the desecration of holy sites and petitionary prayers. At the end there is a theologically questionable section where the righteous Jews turn on the sell outs and collaborators and put some of them to death!
The Ptolemys are the direct ancestors of the famous Cleopatra (there were a number of rulers with her name) and are descended from one of the generals in Alexander the Great's army.
Summary
WikipediaAll quotes are from the NRSV translation.[3 Macc.] tells the story of persecution of the Jews under Pharaoh Ptolemy IV Philopator (222–205 BC) in Ptolemaic Egypt, some decades before the Maccabee uprising in Judea. The story purports to explain the origin of a Purim-like festival celebrated in Egypt. 3 Maccabees is somewhat similar to the Book of Esther, another book which describes how a king is advised to annihilate the Diaspora Jews in his territory, yet is thwarted by God.
The pagan Philopator Attempts to Enter the Temple (3 Macc. 1)
8 Since the Jews had sent some of their council and elders to greet him [Philopator], to bring him gifts of welcome, and to congratulate him on what had happened, he was all the more eager to visit them as soon as possible. 9 After he had arrived in Jerusalem, he offered sacrifice to the supreme God and made thank offerings and did what was fitting for the place. Then, upon entering the place and being impressed by its excellence and its beauty, 10 he marveled at the good order of the temple and conceived a desire to enter the sanctuary. 11 When they said that this was not permitted because not even members of their own nation were allowed to enter, not even all of the priests, but only the high priest who was preeminent over all—and he only once a year—the king was by no means persuaded. 12 Even after the law had been read to him, he did not cease to maintain that he ought to enter, saying, “Even if those men are deprived of this honor, I ought not to be.” 13 And he inquired why, when he entered every other temple, no one there had stopped him. 14 And someone answered thoughtlessly that it was wrong to place any significance in that. 15 “But since this has happened,” the king said, “why should not I at least enter, whether they wish it or not?”
And when he entered there, he was amazed at the majesty and splendor, and marveling at the arrangement of the temple, he desired to enter the sanctuary. He was told that he should not do this, for none of the people was allowed to enter there, not even the priests, but only one higher priest who was in charge of all, and that only once a year; but he didn't want to listen.
A pagan king tries to force his way into the temple at Jerusalem. Some of the Jews attempt to appease him. As in 1 & 2 Macc., or later in Roman times, pagans are seeking to desecrate the temple once again.
Instead of a violent armed rebellion this time, the Jews, including the High Priest Simon, petition god to stop Philopator entering. In chapter 2, God gives him a little surprise. Philopator is struck by something resembling a stroke or an epileptic attack. This is God helping his people in passive resistance against government repression and blasphemy.
Thereupon God, who oversees all things, the first Father of all, holy among the holy ones, having heard the lawful supplication, scourged him who had exalted himself in insolence and audacity. 22 He shook him on this side and that as a reed is shaken by the wind, so that he lay helpless on the ground and, besides being paralyzed in his limbs, was unable even to speak, since he was ensnared by a righteous judgment. 23 Then both Friends and bodyguards, seeing the severe punishment that had overtaken him and fearing that he would lose his life, quickly dragged him out, panic-stricken in their exceedingly great fear. 24 After a while he recovered, and though he had been punished, he by no means repented but went away uttering bitter threats.
However, Philopator does not repent. Instead he develops a hatred of Jews and takes this back with him to Egypt.
The King devises a monstrous plan. Take an army of elephants (five hundred I think), make them drunk and trample the Jews in the local Hippodrome. (See various pictures.)
God helps the Jews again this time after a prayer from Eleazar, as two angels repel the elephants and send them back against the attacking Gentile forces. The two angels are fearsome in aspect and can be seen by all but the Jews.
Philopator finally relents, and gives the Jews their freedom. He even gives them permission to slaughter those Jews who collaborated with him!
The book not only foreshadows the Maccabean Revolt of 1 & 2 Macc., and the later Bar Kokhba Rebellion after Christ, but also the Roman destruction of the temple in 70 AD... and looking backward, the Jews' relationship with Egypt under Moses.... except that this time the Jews do not leave Egypt. There is also a resemblance to the story of Esther as previously mentioned.
Historicity
There is no record of these events elsewhere although the well known Jewish historian Josephus mentions a different Ptolemy, Ptolemy VIII Physcon (146–117 BC) had Jews trampled by drunken elephants for supporting his rival Cleopatra II.
The Jews in Egypt were surrounded by paganism though, both of the Greek and Egyptian varieties. It is worth remembering that many ancient Egyptian buildings would have been in far better shape than today even under Greek rule. Centuries old pagan temples and palaces would have dominated the city of Alexandria.
Some of the Jews were also co-opted by the Ptolemys by being put through a false temple ceremony to the god Dionysius, who was the god of grapes, wine and debauchery. The elephants could be seen as representative of this.
It is best not to read this book as a historical document. Better as a historical novel with moral and religious messages i.e. to call on God when in trouble.
--
This is part of my ongoing series on Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical works:
1 Esdras inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1343974
2 Esdras (the most relevant book in the Apocrypha?) inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1344302
1 Maccabees
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69454
2 Maccabees
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69468
4 Maccabees
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1348046
Book of Baruch and the Epistle of Jeremy/Jeremiah
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69433
Book of Tobit inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1341501
Apocryphal additions to Esther inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1343414
Bel and the Dragon (quoted in full, KJV; inc audiobook link)
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69261
Prayer of Azarias and Hymn of the Three Children (quoted in full KJV, inc. audiobook link)
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1341611
Book of Judith and the Book of Mormon, inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69402
Book of Susanna inc. audiobook link
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69386
Wisdom of Solomon
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69469
Book of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69412
Prayer of Mannases (aka Mannaseh; quoted in full KJV, inc. audiobook link)
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69263
Psalm 151 (quoted in full, NRSV)
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=63875
Epistle to the Laodiceans (NT, quoted in full Wycliffe's translation, )
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=64025
The Book of Odes - this is an Eastern Orthodox work of limited interest, but included for the sake of completeness.
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69470
Outside the Western and Eastern Orthodox Canon...
The Ethiopian canon. This includes brief info on the books of Sinodos, Ethiopian Clement, Ethiopian Covenant, and Didascalia as well as a list of other works in the canon.
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69540
The Book of Enoch
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69577
The Book of Jubilees, also known as Leptogenesis or Little Genesis
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69548
3 Corinthians
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=69567
Anyway just after join time is when it should update. Anyways, I’m testing that hypothesis.
All this towards UPRD or putting in exactly two cents. Now I have windows of time in which I post.
Weird.
...
https://strangesounds.substack.com/p/i- ... my-lil-eye
Reminiscent of PTSD glidepath posts inOD on LDSFF.
Nashville again too. Source is evident in Lake Mead Poll thread.
Said lake is evidently filling, but likely will need two years of record snowfall.
Strange spy stuff, but not unexpected anymore.
This week was even more epic than the last, and hopefully next week will continue the trend Up into the Sky, HI.
For real, when I quote BND on LDSFF in a Bog Post, my email shows a notification.
Bog Posts are a new thing creators are always coming up with.
The smiles quick working in the Brave Browser.
Oh well, I have most of them memorized.
For real, when I quote BND on LDSFF in a Bog Post, my email shows a notification.
Bog Posts are a new thing creators are always coming up with.
The smiles quick working in the Brave Browser.
Oh well, I have most of them memorized.
Posts liked by High Spy is a new link created to replace my signature.
