Slog Bog

Finrock wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:09 pm 2027? 2028? 2037?

How do you wait for something without waiting for it?

Time/Space, is it even real? What are we waiting for?

drumdude wrote: Thu Mar 06, 2025 9:26 pm

Doctor Steuss wrote: Thu Mar 06, 2025 8:46 pm Maybe it's naïvété on my part, but I just can't foresee any scenario where Social Security would be in danger. At least beyond the danger it is constantly in, inasmuch as population ages are shifting. I know it's something a handful of politicians and ideologists have wanted to dismantle for a long time, but beyond that, it would result in a near immediate political backlash that I don't think even the most dug-in cult district representatives would be able to shrug off.

If there was a disruption, there would be no shortage of Republican and Democrat AGs hitting the courts with quickness, and no shortage of judges (right and left-leaning) that would make emergency rulings. The political pressure alone from within the Republican party would be enough to make it extremely temporary at best.

I could maybe see SSDI being targeted, since that's easier to paint with a broad fraud brush, and people with disabilities aren't particularly held in high regard in some MAGA circles. Regular Social Security though... I just can't see it.

Again, definitely a chance I'm being overly optimistic and/or naïve here, but I just can't foresee a scenario where it could play out without catastrophic political fallout for the party that does it.

Ditto. I don’t see how DOGE cutting these jobs risks Social Security.

aaascending wrote: Wed May 28, 2025 11:41 am

BuriedTartaria wrote: Sun May 25, 2025 3:05 pm

I admire your committed study to Revelation and Daniel and appreciate hearing your thoughts on what those books are saying. May the prophesied Zion come.

Michael, as the 7th and presiding angel, is present in each of the kingdom's births associated with the signs of the woman's alignments depicted in Revelation chapter 12. Michael Regulus is heralded or announced in each alignment in Leo as the woman's crown through Judah. He is also present when Jupiter is depicted in his role as the Holy Ghost and his
mortal identity.

“It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Jehovah, and Michael; these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost”. JD 1:51, Brigham Young, April 9, 1852.

This is represented by the planet Jupiter, Michael's second role. The Hebrew word for Jupiter is tzédek, which, when interpreted, means justice, righteousness, rightness, and right. These names also tie him to the Lord's servant in Isaiah. The planet Jupiter represents the mortal aspect of Michael the Archangel/Holy Ghost. Michael's presence twice in the sign of the woman points to his role as Michael when the church or woman is protected by his power and he battles the dragon. The mortal aspect, or second, is to point to his power as the Holy Ghost coming upon Mary and the power of the Highest overshadowing her (Luke 1:35). Descending upon Christ is a form of a Dove, Spirit of God descending like a dove, (Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32; 1 Ne. 11:27; 2 Ne. 31:8; D&C 93:15). Finally, the baptism of fire upon Christ’s disciples (Acts 1:5 and 8; Acts 2:1-4). Jupiter is the ruling planet of Sagittarius, Michael's/Holy Ghost birth sign.

Although Jupiter is in the birth position similar to 1832's alignment, which had Venus in the womb, Jupiter does not represent President Nelson's right to the fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood that is indicated by the star Spica. Following the pattern of 2 BC alignment and its later 1832 fulfillment, the elements in the womb point to the parable of the 10 Virgins (D&C 45:56-57; Matt. 25:1-13), a completely separate event associated with Christ coming in the three watches of the night (JST Luke 12:41-42) and his appearances to more than just prophets. It would additionally point to the third and final Davidic King (the Root) referenced in Isaiah 11:10 (the stem or stock is Christ, the Rod is Joseph Smith, and the Root is Elias/Michael/Holy Ghost).

Unfortunately, the scripture states, "Her child was caught up unto God and his throne" after being born. This happened back in Joseph Smith's day but has not occurred since. Each subsequent prophet has been a king of peace, ruling all nations with the rod of iron from ordination. However, this is not the case for Russel M. Nelson, as the prophecy states the manchild (Fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood) will descend upon him in March 2018. The Dragon would seek the man-child and then be lost or caught up soon after the birth, or about 6 months later, following the precedent set by Christ. Therefore, the next sequential event in the prophecy cannot occur until the child is caught up.

One of the differences between 2017 fulfillment and 1832 is that Jupiter is in place of Venus in the womb and next to Spica. Jupiter takes 12 years to orbit the Sun, so it spends most of one year in or near each constellation. For the 2017 fulfillment, Jupiter spends its ten-month loop in the womb of the Maiden from November 2016 to August 2017. Then, in September of 2017, it rushes to the position of leaving the womb and into the birth position. This dramatic symbolism of birth, however, is not a reference to the kingdom's birth. The kingdom's birth is heralded by Spica in each of the three fulfillments.

So what was Jupiter in the womb heralding? Starting on November 20, 2016, Jupiter represents a person to whom the priesthood rightly belongs and the keys of the kingdom (Isaiah 11:10; 2 Nephi 21:10; D&C 113:5-6). Much like Saturn, the ruling planet of Capricorn, Joseph Smith's birth sign. In addition, Jupiter is the ruling planet of Sagittarius, the birth sign of the angel ascending from the East, also known as the final Davidic servant, the Root, the premortal Michael, and the Holy Ghost (Isa 11:10; 2 Nephi 21:10; D&C 113:1-6).

2017 The sign of the woman on trumpets heralds or announces two births during that same Jewish year. This first birth happens just after the 1st of Tishre, Rosh Hashanah or Trumpets. On the 10th day of Tishrei is the "Day of Atonement," Sunday evening, October 1, 2017. Elias, who has been ascending, leveled up to a king of peace, receiving the fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood and power. Although D&C 132:7 states there is never but one on the earth that holds this power and the keys of the priesthood. This verse speaks about two that hold this power or the fullness of power and keys. The first is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit of promise, he who is anointed for time and all eternity. The second is the prophet holding this power and keys. So it is true that there was never but one on the earth until the tail end of President Monson's reign. Elias's premortal identity is Michael, the angel ascending from the east side of God's throne, and the premortal Holy Ghost. As Elias, which is very fitting, as John the Baptist was born Sunday evening, October 6, 2 BC, also the 10th of Tishrei, on the Perpetual Hebrew calendar. The Baptist was Elias for Christ's first coming (mortal ministry). The angel ascending from the east is Elias for Christ's second coming. This second Elias would be spiritually born on this date. This date is also the Day of Atonement, representing a forerunner. John was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb (D&C 84:27; Luke 1:15). He went forth with the spirit of Elias to prepare the way (Luke 1:17; D&C 27:6). The second Elias is the Holy Ghost from before his birth. It is also interesting that Jesus Christ received the fullness of power also on the day of atonement, Saturday, October 2, 32 AD On this date, he was transfigured. Elias as the premortal Holy Ghost is the friend and best man of the Bridegroom; his job is to teach the Bride and prepare her spiritually for the Bridegroom's coming. On the Day of Atonement, the great High Priest (Jehovah or Jesus Christ) offers up two kid goats; one for the Lord is slain (Joseph Smith), and the other has Israel's sins placed upon his head and is sent into the wilderness. The second is a type for Azazel, the one mighty and strong who carries Israel's sin upon him. His spiritual birth happened after the 2017 sign of the women's final alignment on sacred days. He is the anointed, saved unto the end. The Anointed references the final Davidic King. Like Joseph (the Rod), he is partly of Judah as well as Joseph or Ephraim (Isaiah 11:10; 2 Nephi 21:10; D&C 113:5-6). He is the "Branch/Root" or Elias or Now with the power of Elijah.

The fullness of the priesthood is heralded on September 23, 2017 on trumpets (1 Tishrei), and two kings are spiritually born that year, the first heralded by Jupiter in the birthing position on the day of Atonement Sunday evening October 1, 2017, (10 Tishrei). The second is represented by the Star spica at Passover March 31, 2018. The one on Passover descended on President Nelson then was caught into heaven 184 days later again not due to sin, but rather due to the Prophesied sign of the woman alignment. The event follows the same pattern that Joseph Smith experienced and the precedent set by the Savior. The church is referred to as the woman who flees into the wilderness in a diminished state for 1260 (1279) days where she is fed. She flees to a place prepared by God (Salt Lake City) from October 1, 2018, to April 1, 2022.

Unlike the Leonid meteor shower of 1833 the one in 2018 peaked on November 17/18 but did not follow the 1833 pattern. The amount of stars falling paled in comparison to the 1833 event. Only the 1833 event was symbolic commemorating the war in heaven. No heavenly manifestation referencing Michael. This indicates that Michael is no longer in heaven. The battle is still fought, the war in heaven only indicates that it's a skirmish between God and Satan, God's arm of righteousness leads the battle. The battle was happening everyday during the 3.5 years the woman was protected by Elias and fed by the prophet. The war in heaven was reenacted as Elias and his followers cast satan out or down every day. The one thing Elias always taught was defense against the dark side.

Unlike Joseph Smith President Nelson is not a Davidic servant, and will not get the fullness back. Fortunately Michael has the fullness of power and keys and he is the final Davidic servant mentioned in Isaiah 11:1 and 10 (Branch or Root).

So the Church's prophet and President power is diminished as announced in this prophecy. Unfortunately, the church is unaware of this truth and continues on without authorization. Elias is fully authorized by God , holding the fullness of keys and power, providing protection to those walking in darkness at noon day, almost the entire church. Elias does have a small following Elias is despised and abhorred by his people unrecognized and unsustained. The priesthood he holds rightly belongs to him. He is no one in particular, a perceived servant of rulers (Isaiah 49:7; 1 Nephi 21:7). He has no nation yet, and those claiming to be Israel among the Gentiles and the Jews (LDS) do not look for him or seek to establish him. He's not an Apostle or even a General Authority or at least not recognized as one. The Lord hides him and prepares him until the appointed time (Isaiah 49:2; 1 Nephi 21:2).
The church remains in the wilderness even after the completion of the three and a half years (October 1, 2018 - April 1, 2022). Just after the completion of the 3.5 years another announcement occurs on May 16, 2022 on the very day of the second passover (Numbers 9:6-14). On the perpetual Hebrew Calendar Passover was April 16, 2022. This event was officially marked with a blood moon that also appears on May 16. Blood moons are omens to God's covenant people. This omen heralds Satan's attack on the woman. From April 1, 2022 until October 1, 2025 Satan will persecute the woman who brought forth the manchild. The brunt of this attack will be focused on Elias (Michael) in every other fulfillment Satan is cast to the earth and persecuted the church because he couldn't get back at Michael. However, in this final scenario Michael is on the earth and is part of the membership of the woman.

October 1, 2025 will also mark the time of two wings of a great eagle, in Joseph Smiths time many Ascended, so its possible many will ascend spiritually during that time that is soon upon us it will last for 3.5 years or until April 1, 2029. at the conclusion of the time the final 3.5 year period will be upon us. The time extends from April 1, 2029 to Oct 1, 2032. During the serpant cast a flood out of his mouth the flood is a army or mob in Joseph Smith day, he is killed, in our day perhaps the Davidic servant will be marred 3 Nephi 20 and 21. Also during this last time dragon will be wroth with the woman or church and made war with the remnant. this remnat will not flee from Zion to the to the west but similar to the latter-day exodus in Brigham Youngs day will, will follow the ascended Angel from the east ,a moden day Moses on a exodus to Zion, they will redeem and inhabit it. This remnant will then begin the gathering as Elias seals 144k high preist with the help of four other angels...

aaascending wrote: Wed May 28, 2025 11:41 am Michael, as the 7th and presiding angel, is present in each of the kingdom's births associated with the signs of the woman's alignments...

Michael Sherwin wrote: You are not looking for someone to come forward,
you are looking for someone to come upward.

Bronco73idi wrote: Fri Jul 18, 2025 5:55 pm
I believe the dates they gave were a distraction.

Yom Kippur is conveniently in between those two holidays.

Michael Sherwin, Introduction #2 at https://slogbog.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=367 wrote: The pattern of prophecy unfolds in types and shadows. Destruction follows defilement. Restoration follows sacrifice. The Red Heifer is not a quaint ritual—it is a signal. A marker. A trigger. But not the beginning. The beginning has already passed; the earth has already groaned. The heifer is the witness of preparation, not the spark of ignition.

Isaiah 24:19–21 wrote: The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage;
and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high,
and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

Michael Sherwin wrote: “All hell breaks loose” is a phrase of the unprepared.
To those watching, the seals break slowly and in plain view.
To those sleeping, it comes as a thief in the night.
Yom Kippur is not just between holidays—it is between judgments.
When the scapegoat is released, who bears its weight?

Hebrews 10:26–27 wrote: For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation,
which shall devour the adversaries.

Michael Sherwin wrote: All hell breaks loose when the restrainer is removed.
It will seem sudden, but it is written.

OpenAeye wrote:Fri Jul 18, 2025 8:20 pm

Bronco73idi wrote: Fri Jul 18, 2025 6:20 pm You love that 38, I think that will be 2052ish, I don’t think 2057.

2 Esdras 13:30–38, abridged for clarity wrote: 30 Those who dwell on earth shall be seized with great fear.
31 They shall plan to wage war, nation against nation.
32 Then My Son shall be revealed.
34 And a multitude shall gather to fight against Him.
35 But He shall stand on Mount Zion.
36 Zion shall appear, prepared as a mountain not made with hands.
37 My Son shall rebuke the nations for their wickedness—this is the storm.
38 He shall consume them with the Law—this is the fire.

As for your 38… yes, I love it like a timekeeper loves his first whistle.

2052 is not arbitrary. It’s 38 years after the March 8, 2014 announcement that signaled a severing (in Spirit) from Babylonish contracts.

Now read carefully…

Michael Sherwin, Introduction #2 wrote: What is sealed will be opened when the appointed time meets the prepared vessel.
God does not guess. He calculates.

Here is your BroAye 2¢ drop:

One penny for each temple that fell.
One for the silence of Moroni.
A second for the veiled Red Heifer,
And a weight for every nation that readied war.

Time is not set by the red moon or blue heifer,
But by when men call good evil, and evil good—
And still expect the Lord to bless their timing.

“Zion will appear,” but first she must be cleansed.

So mark this:
Mountains do not move without quake.
And the true servant does not stand until Zion does.

—OpenAeye
(Calling from the summit where frogs still croak and scrolls still open)

Michael Sherwin wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:52 am

harp master wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:29 am
I just want to cover your take on the first seal.

But first.

The purpose of a seal - especially the four horsemen - is they give us the 'opening signs' of the end-times. They indicate that there's very little time left before the world really goes bad and the Lord returns. They show us that the fulfillment of the book of Revelation is upon us with bigger things to come. They could be the birth pains Jesus spoke of in Mathew 24.

The most common view is the first seal is either Jesus Christ or the anti-Christ. The second seal is "war." The third seal is "famine" The four seal is "pestilence." They are much more than what is described in just a few words. They are actual people who can be identified, each with a specific event attached.

After 9/11, quotations of Isaiah 30:25 were circulated everywhere. People thought nothing of it and didn't associate it with anything prophetic. But! The towers coming down are in Isaiah 30:25. That's the same chapter of the bible where for centuries many bible scholars believe the end-time anti-Christ is found.

Isaiah 30:25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.

The mountains, rivers, and streams in this verse indicate a time of plenty and prosperity upon the countries and cities of the world. The fallen towers occur in the era of the Lord's return, just before the Millennium, and just prior to the time of the Assyrian anti-Christ.

"And I saw and, behold a white horse; and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him, and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

I was watching the north tower of the World Trade Center burn, when the south tower was hit, I and thousands of others saw a clear image of the face of Satan in the first billows of smoke that exited from the other side. The next day the image was on the covers of several magazines. I knew then that this was a significant event. That image can no longer be found on the internet for some reason.

The second most accepted view would be that this rider is Jesus Christ, but that idea has no fuel for several reasons. Here are a few questions and issues...

1. Christ is the ONE opening the seals, why would he be one of the riders?
2. Christ or the gospel is never associated with a bow which is 'usually' associated with evil.
3. Christ rides a white horse and wears a diadem. This rider of Rev. 6:2 wears a 'stephanos.'
4. Why would Christ be the first rider, and the other three bad guys with bad things that follow? We've always depicted the four as, 'riding together' considering them to be confederate.

THE BOW

This bow is the seed of Ishmael.

Typically a bow is an article of war but most people have no answer why this rider has no arrows. A warrior doesn't go out conquering and carry a bow without arrows.

I associate the four horsemen with Islam and the Arab's because of the BOW.

In the bible, the bow is symbolic of, "evil conquest and designs, and a struggle against much travail in order to obtain a goal." That struggle is jihad. The goal is world domination.

This seal describes holy war as a 'struggle' to conquer the infidel and ultimately conquering the world.

Bow from Strong's...
5115. toxon tox'-on from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):--bow.

At first it says a 'bow' then it mentions a simple fabric. I have seen some Greek lexicon's (or root word) translate bow as "bough". (Turbans?)

The bow indicates the offspring of people that are out "conquering and to conquer." It symbolizes the offspring of Hagar, Ishmael, and Esau.

I discovered that there are only a few people in the bible to whom a bow is personally attributed. They are Esau and Ishmael - the fathers of the Arabs. Muhammad claimed to be a descendant of Ishmael making Islam the religious offspring of Ishmael and whose followers are currently engaged in a global holy war called the third jihad, or the third and final round of the Crusades. Ishmael's descendants are today a mixture of the many Arabic tribes and clans symbolized by the iron and clay of Daniel 2, and the terrorism described in Habakkuk 1-2.

Arrows aren't mentioned in the text and we shouldn't assume they are. If Esau is said to take his bow hunting, then arrows are indirectly implied. If Ishmael is said to take his bow into battle, then we can assume they are implied. This prophecy doesn't mean that a white horse rider is out militarily conquering with a bow and arrows. It's symbolic of the origin - the people - and the religion of Islam who's goal is conquering the infidel and the world. I think the rider is Muhammad.

49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
49:2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
If you have made such a simple mistake as believing the LORD has no bow then what other simple mistakes have you made? And what does the conquering the archer, the bow or the arrow? If the rider on the white horse has a bow and he goes forth conquering, and to conquer and the servant is a polished arrow in the LORD's quiver then what is the true understanding?

BeNotDeceived wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2026 2:24 pm Re: The antichrist
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 3#p1636183

Michael Sherwin wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:52 am

harp master wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:29 am
I just want to cover your take on the first seal.

But first.

The purpose of a seal - especially the four horsemen - is they give us the 'opening signs' of the end-times. They indicate that there's very little time left before the world really goes bad and the Lord returns. They show us that the fulfillment of the book of Revelation is upon us with bigger things to come. They could be the birth pains Jesus spoke of in Mathew 24.

The most common view is the first seal is either Jesus Christ or the anti-Christ. The second seal is "war." The third seal is "famine" The four seal is "pestilence." They are much more than what is described in just a few words. They are actual people who can be identified, each with a specific event attached.

After 9/11, quotations of Isaiah 30:25 were circulated everywhere. People thought nothing of it and didn't associate it with anything prophetic. But! The towers coming down are in Isaiah 30:25. That's the same chapter of the bible where for centuries many bible scholars believe the end-time anti-Christ is found.

Isaiah 30:25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.

The mountains, rivers, and streams in this verse indicate a time of plenty and prosperity upon the countries and cities of the world. The fallen towers occur in the era of the Lord's return, just before the Millennium, and just prior to the time of the Assyrian anti-Christ.

"And I saw and, behold a white horse; and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him, and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

I was watching the north tower of the World Trade Center burn, when the south tower was hit, I and thousands of others saw a clear image of the face of Satan in the first billows of smoke that exited from the other side. The next day the image was on the covers of several magazines. I knew then that this was a significant event. That image can no longer be found on the internet for some reason.

The second most accepted view would be that this rider is Jesus Christ, but that idea has no fuel for several reasons. Here are a few questions and issues...

1. Christ is the ONE opening the seals, why would he be one of the riders?
2. Christ or the gospel is never associated with a bow which is 'usually' associated with evil.
3. Christ rides a white horse and wears a diadem. This rider of Rev. 6:2 wears a 'stephanos.'
4. Why would Christ be the first rider, and the other three bad guys with bad things that follow? We've always depicted the four as, 'riding together' considering them to be confederate.

THE BOW

This bow is the seed of Ishmael.

Typically a bow is an article of war but most people have no answer why this rider has no arrows. A warrior doesn't go out conquering and carry a bow without arrows.

I associate the four horsemen with Islam and the Arab's because of the BOW.

In the bible, the bow is symbolic of, "evil conquest and designs, and a struggle against much travail in order to obtain a goal." That struggle is jihad. The goal is world domination.

This seal describes holy war as a 'struggle' to conquer the infidel and ultimately conquering the world.

Bow from Strong's...
5115. toxon tox'-on from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):--bow.

At first it says a 'bow' then it mentions a simple fabric. I have seen some Greek lexicon's (or root word) translate bow as "bough". (Turbans?)

The bow indicates the offspring of people that are out "conquering and to conquer." It symbolizes the offspring of Hagar, Ishmael, and Esau.

I discovered that there are only a few people in the bible to whom a bow is personally attributed. They are Esau and Ishmael - the fathers of the Arabs. Muhammad claimed to be a descendant of Ishmael making Islam the religious offspring of Ishmael and whose followers are currently engaged in a global holy war called the third jihad, or the third and final round of the Crusades. Ishmael's descendants are today a mixture of the many Arabic tribes and clans symbolized by the iron and clay of Daniel 2, and the terrorism described in Habakkuk 1-2.

Arrows aren't mentioned in the text and we shouldn't assume they are. If Esau is said to take his bow hunting, then arrows are indirectly implied. If Ishmael is said to take his bow into battle, then we can assume they are implied. This prophecy doesn't mean that a white horse rider is out militarily conquering with a bow and arrows. It's symbolic of the origin - the people - and the religion of Islam who's goal is conquering the infidel and the world. I think the rider is Muhammad.

49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
49:2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
If you have made such a simple mistake as believing the LORD has no bow then what other simple mistakes have you made? And what does the conquering the archer, the bow or the arrow? If the rider on the white horse has a bow and he goes forth conquering, and to conquer and the servant is a polished arrow in the LORD's quiver then what is the true understanding?

Harp Master quoted Habukkuk but lost his patience and wiped out many of his posts.

Yes. That distinction is essential. Hope in the world to come is not an excuse to neglect the present world; it can make present conduct more important.

If the new creation is an order governed fully by God’s Spirit, then the present life can be understood as a place where we learn whether we actually want that order. It is easy to say we want Zion when surrounded by clarity, justice, and peace. The harder question is whether we will choose truth, mercy, restraint, courage, and fidelity to the Spirit while living amid confusion, corruption, pressure, and competing voices.

That gives real depth to the idea of the **still small voice**. The test is not merely whether God can overwhelm us with unmistakable power. It is whether we will recognize and follow His Spirit when doing so requires discernment, patience, humility, and sometimes going against the surrounding order.

In that sense, the present world functions almost like a revealing environment. It shows what actually governs us.

Do we become cruel because cruelty is rewarded? Do we become dishonest because dishonesty is useful? Do we dominate when we have power? Do we abandon compassion when compassion costs us something? Or do we continue striving to act according to the Spirit even when the surrounding system encourages the opposite?

That connects strongly with Jesus' statement:

> “He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much.”

The principle could be larger than stewardship of possessions. If someone learns to walk with God under conditions of limitation and ambiguity, that person is demonstrating the kind of character capable of participating in a greater divine order.

And your wording—**“that God will strive with us”**—is interesting because scripture often presents the relationship as reciprocal without implying equality of power. We seek, respond, yield, listen, endure; God strengthens, teaches, gives light, and enlarges capacity.

So perhaps the promise is not simply:

**endure this miserable world and eventually escape it.**

It is more like:

**learn here to live by the Spirit of the world that is coming.**

Then Zion is both future and present.

Future Zion is the perfected order God establishes.

Present Zion begins wherever people voluntarily live according to that same Spirit before the surrounding world reflects it.

That also explains why attachment to the present order is so dangerous. The issue isn't enjoying life, building homes, loving people, or improving society. Those can all be good. The danger is allowing the logic of the present order to become our own logic.

If the new creation operates by one Spirit and we have spent this life cultivating the opposite spirit, simply transporting us into a better environment would not solve the deeper problem. We would bring the old order with us.

So the transformation has to begin **before** the environment changes.

That makes mortality less like a waiting room and more like a proving or revealing ground: not necessarily God discovering something He doesn't know, but **we becoming—and discovering—what we actually choose to be**.

And then taking upon ourselves His Name becomes preparation for belonging to His world, because we are already learning to live according to the Spirit by which that world operates.

Finrock wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2026 6:48 pm

BeNotDeceived wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2026 2:24 pm Re: The antichrist
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 3#p1636183

Michael Sherwin wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:52 am

49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
49:2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
If you have made such a simple mistake as believing the LORD has no bow then what other simple mistakes have you made? And what does the conquering the archer, the bow or the arrow? If the rider on the white horse has a bow and he goes forth conquering, and to conquer and the servant is a polished arrow in the LORD's quiver then what is the true understanding?

Harp Master quoted Habukkuk but lost his patience and wiped out many of his posts.

Yes. That distinction is essential. Hope in the world to come is not an excuse to neglect the present world; it can make present conduct more important.

If the new creation is an order governed fully by God’s Spirit, then the present life can be understood as a place where we learn whether we actually want that order. It is easy to say we want Zion when surrounded by clarity, justice, and peace. The harder question is whether we will choose truth, mercy, restraint, courage, and fidelity to the Spirit while living amid confusion, corruption, pressure, and competing voices.

That gives real depth to the idea of the **still small voice**. The test is not merely whether God can overwhelm us with unmistakable power. It is whether we will recognize and follow His Spirit when doing so requires discernment, patience, humility, and sometimes going against the surrounding order.

In that sense, the present world functions almost like a revealing environment. It shows what actually governs us.

Do we become cruel because cruelty is rewarded? Do we become dishonest because dishonesty is useful? Do we dominate when we have power? Do we abandon compassion when compassion costs us something? Or do we continue striving to act according to the Spirit even when the surrounding system encourages the opposite?

That connects strongly with Jesus' statement:

> “He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much.”

The principle could be larger than stewardship of possessions. If someone learns to walk with God under conditions of limitation and ambiguity, that person is demonstrating the kind of character capable of participating in a greater divine order.

And your wording—**“that God will strive with us”**—is interesting because scripture often presents the relationship as reciprocal without implying equality of power. We seek, respond, yield, listen, endure; God strengthens, teaches, gives light, and enlarges capacity.

So perhaps the promise is not simply:

**endure this miserable world and eventually escape it.**

It is more like:

**learn here to live by the Spirit of the world that is coming.**

Then Zion is both future and present.

Future Zion is the perfected order God establishes.

Present Zion begins wherever people voluntarily live according to that same Spirit before the surrounding world reflects it.

That also explains why attachment to the present order is so dangerous. The issue isn't enjoying life, building homes, loving people, or improving society. Those can all be good. The danger is allowing the logic of the present order to become our own logic.

If the new creation operates by one Spirit and we have spent this life cultivating the opposite spirit, simply transporting us into a better environment would not solve the deeper problem. We would bring the old order with us.

So the transformation has to begin **before** the environment changes.

That makes mortality less like a waiting room and more like a proving or revealing ground: not necessarily God discovering something He doesn't know, but **we becoming—and discovering—what we actually choose to be**.

And then taking upon ourselves His Name becomes preparation for belonging to His world, because we are already learning to live according to the Spirit by which that world operates.

Niemand wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2026 11:00 pm

BeNotDeceived wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2026 10:34 pm He escaped from this version of reality as per me latest musical OD post.

Is that your way of saying he's died?