Book of Mormon Land is England Thread

[Finrock]

Please provide content if you possess it to fill this space with evidence or proof of the OP.

I can't access LDSFF OD to copy content which drives the point of backup before it's too late...

anyways

...

[The Wicker Man]

First of all the Spirit out of the blue told me that the BoM land was England. I was not contemplating the subject or in the least interested in the subject. I thought it was a fairytale. So why would I be bothered looking for a fairytale. Anyway I did not do anything about it until about a year and a half later when the Spirit told me to tell them about England. It took me a minute or so to remember what about England I'm supposed to tell them about. When I did remember I made the OP on the subject. The OP is not in OD at LDSFF. I don't remember in what forum it's in. The title though is, England.

1) England can fit because when they first arrived they were on an island of the sea
2) There are four great seas, Atlantic Ocean, North Sea, English Channel and Celtic Sea
3) There is the Clyde River that flows south to north
4) The Clyde empties into the western sea from which one can sail north
5) On an island in northern Canada there is Clyde River Hamlet
6) Clyde and Sidon are linguistically similar, they both have cyde/side in them
7) Corn is an old English word meaning kernel of grain
8) Iron working started about the right time in England
9) Chariots from about 400bc iirc were found in Pembroke
10) Roman histories describe the lamanites perfectly including that they did not use breastplates
11) Roman map places the lamanites exactly where the BoM say they are
12) Roman histories describe a land of desolation north of "the wall"
13) The BoM line of fortification matches the Antonine wall perfectly including walking distance
14) That is also where the narrow neck of land is that is also the correct walking distance
15) Scotland is known to have glaciers even into the 1700s
16) The narrow strip of land is where Hadrian's wall was built
17) Zarahemla is to the south and their religion is identical to Roman Mithraism
18) The headwaters of Sidon are north of Zarahemla, the headwaters of Clyde are north of Hadrian's wall
19) The Nephites migrated north, the Damnonii migrated north disappearing around 400ad

Is all that taken together proof? I think it is!

[Finrock]

First of all the Spirit out of the blue told me that the BoM land was England. I was not contemplating the subject or in the least interested in the subject. I thought it was a fairytale. So why would I be bothered looking for a fairytale. Anyway I did not do anything about it until about a year and a half later when the Spirit told me to tell them about England. It took me a minute or so to remember what about England I'm supposed to tell them about. When I did remember I made the OP on the subject. The OP is not in OD at LDSFF. I don't remember in what forum it's in. The title though is, England.

1) England can fit because when they first arrived they were on an island of the sea
2) There are four great seas, Atlantic Ocean, North Sea, English Channel and Celtic Sea
3) There is the Clyde River that flows south to north
4) The Clyde empties into the western sea from which one can sail north
5) On an island in northern Canada there is Clyde River Hamlet
6) Clyde and Sidon are linguistically similar, they both have cyde/side in them
7) Corn is an old English word meaning kernel of grain
8) Iron working started about the right time in England
9) Chariots from about 400bc iirc were found in Pembroke
10) Roman histories describe the lamanites perfectly including that they did not use breastplates
11) Roman map places the lamanites exactly where the BoM say they are
12) Roman histories describe a land of desolation north of "the wall"
13) The BoM line of fortification matches the Antonine wall perfectly including walking distance
14) That is also where the narrow neck of land is that is also the correct walking distance
15) Scotland is known to have glaciers even into the 1700s
16) The narrow strip of land is where Hadrian's wall was built
17) Zarahemla is to the south and their religion is identical to Roman Mithraism
18) The headwaters of Sidon are north of Zarahemla, the headwaters of Clyde are north of Hadrian's wall
19) The Nephites migrated north, the Damnonii migrated north disappearing around 400ad

Is all that taken together proof? I think it is!

Thank you.

...

[High Spy]

Re: Book of Mormon Geography
https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic. ... 9#p2854899

Still waiting for the "prophets, seers, and revelators" to cough up the truth about the Book of Mormon geography.

Why won't they just do it? Is Heavenly Father testing us?

In the scientific age, seems counter-productive. After all, isn't Heavenly Father a master scientist?

viewtopic.php?p=1763&hilit=Spirit#p1763

[BeNotDeceived]

https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic. ... 2#p2849092

There is one interesting angle.


https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic. ... n#p2856966

Oh ok. Don't know of him/her. I think I will go eat. Hey it's my birthday now haaaaaa. Im 19 hehe. that's quite strange. I am wearing new shoes they are really quite comfy, well they are not new I just wore them now but have had them ages. They were too big for me. My feet must have grown recently.

PW

Ha you was born the day the world did indeed get blowed up, or on the eve of it’s anniversary really.

Your colorful edits reminded me of something mathematically inclined people should instantly get.

Sometimes I represent it thusly.

That RGB code derives naturally on planets that circle their star approximately every 360 days and the inhabitants have 10 fingers.

Maybe someone can explain why.

It’s a truncation of an unnamed transcendental number like pi shifted two decimal places.

[Valo]

We apparently don't have a good record of the peoples that lived on the British Isles prior to the Angles, Saxons, and Juts invading.

[Valo]

About 4000BC it is believed that Michelsberg culture migrated from modern day Germany to the British Isles. These are believed to be the origins of the Neolithic culture on the British Isles that built the great structures of that time like Stone Henge.

A study of the mtDNA of people believed to be from Michelsberg culture at a site in modern day France shows a high percentage from haplogroup H, which is associated with Southwest/West Asia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelsberg_culture

That shows a link between ancient West Asia (Israel is part of West Asia) and the peoples on the British Isles.

[High Spy]

Re: Book of Mormon Geography
https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic. ... 0#p2858280

Re: Book of Mormon Land is England Thread

viewtopic.php?p=1763&hilit=Spirit#p1763

The Wicker Man is dead wrong. Why didn't the writers of the Book of Mormon notice their butts being kicked by the Romans when they (the Romans) invaded?

I’m no scholar on the subject … pasted below is the best answer to a badly worded question. TWM discussed it extensively with a couple of guys from Europe, and none said anything about it. I’ll append a link where said Wicker Man may respond.

https://www.answers.com/geography/What_ ... _conquered

What countries did the ancient Roman's conquered?

There's a problem about that. In ancient times there weren't the countries we know today... the question would be, which territories the ancient Roman Empire enclosed.
"http://www.michaelmaxwolf.de/antike/ROM ... _reich.htm" - this is an address in the net to have a look at the biggest expansion the ancient roman empire had in the year 117 AD (checked the 1st of April 2008 - map working 3:41 a.m. MEZ+1).

You can see the expansion from the handrian's wall (I guess that's the name) in Scotland to the south (north Africa), enclosing territories of today's marocco, lybia, Tunisia, Egypt to the irak...

Interesting the Map Guy is named Michael, but the link is OTS (Out of Service).

[The Wicker Man]

The Wicker Man is dead wrong. Why didn't the writers of the Book of Mormon notice their butts being kicked by the Romans when they (the Romans) invaded?

Because the Damnonii as the Nephites were called by the Romans did not call the Romans, Romans. And by the time the Romans invaded deep enough the Damnonii had already migrated from the Southwest to the Northwest and never really had much contact with the Romans. The most contact that they would have had would have been around the area of the Antonine Wall. However, the Romans only were in that area for about eight years before they abandoned the area. The Damnonii were North West of the Antonine Wall and therefore outside of the temporarily held Roman territory. And they were most likely on friendly terms anyway as they both would have been fighting the wild tribes.

EDIT: While the above is generally true the Nephites did get their butts kicked by Zarahemla on a few occasions.

Yes, the Nephites fought the Lamanites and Zerahemnah in the Book of Mormon. The Nephites and the armies of Moronihah fought Zerahemnah in 35 BC, and the Lamanites captured the land of Zarahemla and exiled the Nephites. The Nephites then fought Zerahemnah again, and Zerahemnah and his army killed many Nephites. The Nephites cried to the Lord for help, and the Lord strengthened the Nephite army. The Lamanites were then wiped out due to their lack of armor, and Zerahemnah surrendered and promised never to come to war again.

Caesar first invaded britain in 55 and 54 BC but they were defeated. Rome did not invade again until 43 AD. Now 35 BC is just a best approximation and it is only 20 years different. Even that part of history is a close enough match to support what the Spirit told me.

Be sure to thank Dr. Shades for me for allowing me to uncover even more evidence!

EDIT2: Very little is known about Caesar's invasion of Britain. What is known is that he invaded in 55 BC and it was not very successful and he withdrew. Caesar invaded again in 54 BC and that time he was more successful winning battles and subjugating the population. Though it did not last and no departure date is given. The two invasions match the quote above. Also elephants disappeared from America 11,000 years ago but Caesar used war elephants against the Britain's. One criticism is that elephants were not known to be in Britain and yet it is recorded in Roman histories that Caesar used elephants in Britain. History is a jumbled mess but all the specific little details seem to be there.

LIKE CHARIOTS

The Book of Mormon mentions the presence of "chariots" in three instances, in two instances (both around 90 BC at the same location) inferring them as a mode of transportation.

In addition to infantry and cavalry, the Britons employed chariots in warfare, a novelty to the Romans, who used them for transport and racing. Caesar describes their use as follows:

Their mode of fighting with their chariots is this: firstly, they drive about in all directions and throw their weapons and generally break the ranks of the enemy with the very dread of their horses and the noise of their wheels; and when they have worked themselves in between the troops of horse, leap from their chariots and engage on foot.

[BeNotDeceived]

Re: The High Spy MEGATHREAD
https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p2858395

California, but not Hotel is another word tuple formulated with a duplicate letter before the first comma, but not a double letter like this string of words and the previous arboretum post.

Sentence, but not string of words is another tuple of said type.

Christ, but not Crist is the most amazing word tuple.

Are you aware that "tuple" isn't a word?

viewtopic.php?p=2821#p2821

Caesar first invaded britain in 55 and 54 BC but they were defeated. Rome did not invade again until 43 AD. Now 35 BC is just a best approximation and it is only 20 years different. Even that part of history is a close enough match to support what the Spirit told me.

Be sure to thank Dr. Shades for me for allowing me to uncover even more evidence!

TWM touched on phonetics. 2025 does indeed present interesting opportunities!

[Valo]

I asked Leo to provide any text that discuss Israelites migrating to England.

I asked Leo to stop repeating that these are not considered historically accurate works. Finally I said I won't use the service again if the AI repeats the same information about it not being historically accurate, alas, it failed to follow simple order even though it did give an answer:

Leo Said: Certainly, I understand your request. One of the main texts often cited in support of the "Ten Lost Tribes" theory is the Book of Mormon, which describes a migration of Israelites to the Americas. However, it's important to note that this text is considered a religious text and is not accepted as historical evidence by most scholars.

Another text that has been proposed as evidence is the "Hemite-Hebrew" theory, which suggests that a group of people from the Middle East, possibly including Israelites, migrated to Britain and influenced the development of the Celtic language and culture. This theory is based on the work of a 19th-century scholar named Isaac Myer, who claimed to have found Hebrew and Phoenician influences in the Celtic language. However, this theory is not widely accepted by linguists or historians.

The "Diaspora Right" theory is based on the idea that Jewish people had a legal right to settle in Britain, as mentioned in the 1217 "Confirmatio Cartarum" charter. However, this theory is also not widely accepted, as the charter does not specifically mention Jewish people, and the concept of a "Diaspora Right" is not mentioned in any other historical documents.

Again, it's important to approach these legends and theories with a critical and skeptical mindset, as they are not considered historically accurate by most scholars.

[Valo]

Conversation with ChatGPT

Me: evaluate this statement for another AI called Leo: Another text that has been proposed as evidence is the "Hemite-Hebrew" theory, which suggests that a group of people from the Middle East, possibly including Israelites, migrated to Britain and influenced the development of the Celtic language and culture. This theory is based on the work of a 19th-century scholar named Isaac Myer, who claimed to have found Hebrew and Phoenician influences in the Celtic language. However, this theory is not widely accepted by linguists or historians.

ChatGPT: The statement presents the "Hemite-Hebrew" theory, proposing a migration from the Middle East to Britain, influencing Celtic language and culture. It attributes this theory to Isaac Myer, a 19th-century scholar. However, it acknowledges that this theory lacks widespread acceptance among linguists or historians. Overall, the statement provides a balanced overview of the theory's origins, key proponent, and its standing within academic circles.

Me: Tell me more about this theory from Isaac Myer ignoring it's standing within academic circles

ChatGPT: Isaac Myer's theory posits a connection between the Middle East, particularly Hebrew and Phoenician cultures, and the development of Celtic language and culture in Britain. He suggests that a group of people, potentially including Israelites, migrated to Britain and left linguistic and cultural influences on the Celtic population. Myer's work examines linguistic similarities and historical connections between these cultures, proposing a narrative of ancient migration and cultural exchange. While his theory may not be widely accepted by mainstream academia, it represents an intriguing exploration of potential connections between distant cultures and their impact on historical development.

Me: What sources did Myers draw upon for his theory?

ChatGPT: Isaac Myer drew upon various sources for his theory, including linguistic analysis, historical records, and interpretations of ancient texts. He likely examined Hebrew and Phoenician languages and cultures, as well as Celtic languages and archaeological findings related to ancient migrations and cultural exchanges. Additionally, he may have consulted works by other scholars exploring similar topics in linguistics, anthropology, and comparative mythology to support his ideas. However, without specific documentation of his sources, it's challenging to provide a comprehensive list of references.

Me: Is there no documentation of his sources?

ChatGPT: There may be documentation of some of Isaac Myer's sources in his published works or correspondence, but it's essential to note that the availability and extent of such documentation can vary. Scholars often leave behind writings, letters, or notes detailing their research and sources, but these materials might not always be comprehensive or easily accessible. For a thorough understanding of Myer's sources, one would need to consult his writings directly or any secondary sources that analyze his work in detail.

Me: What are his works that touch on this topic or speak to this topic?

ChatGPT: Isaac Myer's works that touch on the topic of connections between Hebrew/Phoenician cultures and Celtic language/culture include:

"The Oldest Books in the World: An Account of the Religion, Wisdom, Philosophy, Ethics, Psychology, Manners, Proverbs, Sayings, Refinement, etc., of the Ancient Egyptians" (1900) - This book explores various aspects of ancient Egyptian culture and its potential influence on other civilizations, which may indirectly relate to the broader theme of cultural exchanges.
"Qabbalah: The Philosophical Writings of Solomon Ben Yehudah Ibn Gebirol, or Avicebron, and Their Connection with the Hebrew Qabbalah and Sepher Ha-Zohar, with Remarks Upon the Antiquity and Content of the Latter and Translations of Selected Passages from it" (1888) - While primarily focused on Kabbalah, this work may contain insights or references related to Myer's broader interests in ancient cultures and linguistic connections.
"The Origin and Antiquity of the Phonetic Alphabet" (1899) - This book explores the history and development of writing systems, including the Phoenician alphabet, which could provide context for Myer's theories on linguistic influences.
These works may offer some insight into Myer's perspective on ancient cultures and linguistic connections, although it's important to approach them critically, considering the historical context and scholarly standards of the time.

[Valo]

Question: Would a sealed ship that had a bowl or dish like shape with a white lit stone inside used as a guiding light be a suitable symbol for how the Tuatha de Danaan vessel is understood to mean?

Chatgpt: Yes, that imagery could certainly be a symbolic representation of the vessel associated with the Tuatha de Danaan. The sealed ship with a bowl or dish shape containing a white lit stone inside serves as a powerful metaphor for guidance, enlightenment, and protection. The white lit stone could symbolize wisdom, spiritual illumination, or a connection to the divine, while the ship itself represents a journey or passage to other realms. This interpretation captures the mystical and transformative nature often attributed to the vessel in Irish mythology.

CONTEXT (Wikipedia Description of Ether Book of Mormon)

Jared and his people were among the many scattered peoples from the destruction of the Tower of Babel. The brother of Jared is described as "a large and mighty man ... highly favored of the Lord",[7] and seems to have been the spiritual leader of the group. He was given a vision of the history of the world, and inscribed prophecies, which were "sealed up" until the Lord decides to reveal them. The Lord told the brother of Jared to build unpowered submarines, termed "barges" or "vessels", to cross the ocean to the promised land. The barges could circulate fresh air because of openings in the top and bottom of the vessel.[8] The hole in the top could be "stopped up" when the waves crashed over the vessel to prevent scuttling. The hole in the bottom is assumed to have been constructed as a sort of moon pool with the lip above the waterline so it would not flood the vessel. This would also allow wave action and the buoying of the vessel to pump fresh air in and out of the vessel when the upper opening was uncapped.[9]

Because the vessels could not sustain fire or windows for light, the brother of Jared went to a mountain and prayed for help. God touched several molten stones and made them shine. Because of the brother of Jared's great faith, he saw the finger of God. He then saw and spoke with Jehovah. The people launched the vessels and traveled through great storms. After 344 days, they arrived at the Americas. Jared and his brother led the people to successfully establish a righteous nation.

Ether 6

2] For it came to pass after the Lord had prepared the stones which the brother of Jared had carried up into the mount, the brother of Jared came down out of the mount, and he did put forth the stones into the vessels which were prepared, one in each end thereof; and behold, they did give light unto the vessels.

[3] And thus the Lord caused stones to shine in darkness, to give light unto men, women, and children, that they might not cross the great waters in darkness.

[4] And it came to pass that when they had prepared all manner of food, that thereby they might subsist upon the water, and also food for their flocks and herds, and whatsoever beast or animal or fowl that they should carry with them -- and it came to pass that when they had done all these things they got aboard of their vessels or barges, and set forth into the sea, commending themselves unto the Lord their God.

[5] And it came to pass that the Lord God caused that there should be a furious wind blow upon the face of the waters, towards the promised land; and thus they were tossed upon the waves of the sea before the wind.

[6] And it came to pass that they were many times buried in the depths of the sea, because of the mountain waves which broke upon them, and also the great and terrible tempests which were caused by the fierceness of the wind.

[7] And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish, and also they were tight like unto the ark of Noah; therefore when they were encompassed about by many waters they did cry unto the Lord, and he did bring them forth again upon the top of the waters.

[8] And it came to pass that the wind did never cease to blow towards the promised land while they were upon the waters; and thus they were driven forth before the wind.

[9] And they did sing praises unto the Lord; yea, the brother of Jared did sing praises unto the Lord, and he did thank and praise the Lord all the day long; and when the night came, they did not cease to praise the Lord.

[The Wicker Man]

Question: Would a sealed ship that had a bowl or dish like shape with a white lit stone inside used as a guiding light be a suitable symbol for how the Tuatha de Danaan vessel is understood to mean?

Chatgpt: Yes, that imagery could certainly be a symbolic representation of the vessel associated with the Tuatha de Danaan. The sealed ship with a bowl or dish shape containing a white lit stone inside serves as a powerful metaphor for guidance, enlightenment, and protection. The white lit stone could symbolize wisdom, spiritual illumination, or a connection to the divine, while the ship itself represents a journey or passage to other realms. This interpretation captures the mystical and transformative nature often attributed to the vessel in Irish mythology.

CONTEXT (Wikipedia Description of Ether Book of Mormon)

Jared and his people were among the many scattered peoples from the destruction of the Tower of Babel. The brother of Jared is described as "a large and mighty man ... highly favored of the Lord",[7] and seems to have been the spiritual leader of the group. He was given a vision of the history of the world, and inscribed prophecies, which were "sealed up" until the Lord decides to reveal them. The Lord told the brother of Jared to build unpowered submarines, termed "barges" or "vessels", to cross the ocean to the promised land. The barges could circulate fresh air because of openings in the top and bottom of the vessel.[8] The hole in the top could be "stopped up" when the waves crashed over the vessel to prevent scuttling. The hole in the bottom is assumed to have been constructed as a sort of moon pool with the lip above the waterline so it would not flood the vessel. This would also allow wave action and the buoying of the vessel to pump fresh air in and out of the vessel when the upper opening was uncapped.[9]

Because the vessels could not sustain fire or windows for light, the brother of Jared went to a mountain and prayed for help. God touched several molten stones and made them shine. Because of the brother of Jared's great faith, he saw the finger of God. He then saw and spoke with Jehovah. The people launched the vessels and traveled through great storms. After 344 days, they arrived at the Americas. Jared and his brother led the people to successfully establish a righteous nation.

Ether 6

2] For it came to pass after the Lord had prepared the stones which the brother of Jared had carried up into the mount, the brother of Jared came down out of the mount, and he did put forth the stones into the vessels which were prepared, one in each end thereof; and behold, they did give light unto the vessels.

[3] And thus the Lord caused stones to shine in darkness, to give light unto men, women, and children, that they might not cross the great waters in darkness.

[4] And it came to pass that when they had prepared all manner of food, that thereby they might subsist upon the water, and also food for their flocks and herds, and whatsoever beast or animal or fowl that they should carry with them -- and it came to pass that when they had done all these things they got aboard of their vessels or barges, and set forth into the sea, commending themselves unto the Lord their God.

[5] And it came to pass that the Lord God caused that there should be a furious wind blow upon the face of the waters, towards the promised land; and thus they were tossed upon the waves of the sea before the wind.

[6] And it came to pass that they were many times buried in the depths of the sea, because of the mountain waves which broke upon them, and also the great and terrible tempests which were caused by the fierceness of the wind.

[7] And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish, and also they were tight like unto the ark of Noah; therefore when they were encompassed about by many waters they did cry unto the Lord, and he did bring them forth again upon the top of the waters.

[8] And it came to pass that the wind did never cease to blow towards the promised land while they were upon the waters; and thus they were driven forth before the wind.

[9] And they did sing praises unto the Lord; yea, the brother of Jared did sing praises unto the Lord, and he did thank and praise the Lord all the day long; and when the night came, they did not cease to praise the Lord.

In the book of Ether instruction is given for building barges to take the Jaredites to the land that is choice above all other lands. I stipulate that the choice land is where God is. I stipulate that God did not live on this earth. I stipulate that the special barges built were for space travel and that all the ocean and wind effects are metaphors for the dangers of space travel. Please analyze the construction of the barge like ships for the suitability of space travel as opposed to traveling on the ocean. " 16 And the Lord said: Go to work and build, after the manner of abarges which ye have hitherto built. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did go to work, and also his brethren, and built barges after the manner which they had built, according to the binstructions of the Lord. And they were small, and they were light upon the water, even like unto the lightness of a fowl upon the water.

17 And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly atight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish.

18 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, I have performed the work which thou hast commanded me, and I have made the barges according as thou hast directed me.

19 And behold, O Lord, in them there is no light; whither shall we steer? And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish.

20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.

21 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did so, according as the Lord had commanded.

22 And he cried again unto the Lord saying: O Lord, behold I have done even as thou hast commanded me; and I have prepared the vessels for my people, and behold there is no light in them. Behold, O Lord, wilt thou suffer that we shall cross this great water in darkness?

23 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels? For behold, ye cannot have awindows, for they will be dashed in pieces; neither shall ye take fire with you, for ye shall not go by the light of fire.

24 For behold, ye shall be as a awhale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you. Nevertheless, I will bring you up again out of the depths of the sea; for the bwinds have gone forth cout of my mouth, and also the drains and the floods have I sent forth.

25 And behold, I prepare you against these things; for ye cannot cross this great deep save I prepare you against the waves of the sea, and the winds which have gone forth, and the floods which shall come. Therefore what will ye that I should prepare for you that ye may have light when ye are swallowed up in the depths of the sea?"

ChatGPT
Your interpretation of the Jaredite barges as metaphorical representations of spacecraft for space travel is intriguing. Let's analyze the characteristics of the barges described in the Book of Ether in the context of your interpretation:

Size and Weight: The barges were small and light upon the water, akin to the lightness of a fowl. In the context of space travel, this could suggest a design optimized for maneuverability and efficiency in traversing the vastness of space, where excessive weight could be a hindrance.
Watertight Construction: The barges were exceedingly tight, designed to hold water like unto a dish. In space, maintaining a sealed environment is crucial for survival, protecting against the vacuum of space. The tight construction could symbolize the need for airtight seals to preserve the life-supporting atmosphere within the spacecraft.
Ventilation: The Lord instructed the brother of Jared to create holes in the top and bottom of the barges for air exchange. In the context of space travel, this could represent the need for a controlled ventilation system to regulate oxygen levels and remove carbon dioxide, ensuring the occupants have a breathable atmosphere.
Light: The absence of light in the barges posed a challenge for the Jaredites. The Lord provided a solution by asking what they desired for light. In a spacecraft, windows might not be feasible due to the risk of damage, but alternative light sources, such as artificial lighting systems or advanced display technologies, could provide illumination for the occupants.
Protection from the Elements: The Lord assured the Jaredites that despite the challenges they would face, he would protect them from the waves and winds. In the context of space travel, this could symbolize the need for spacecraft to withstand the harsh conditions of space, including radiation, micrometeoroids, and extreme temperatures.
Overall, when viewed through the lens of space travel, the construction and features of the Jaredite barges align with the requirements for spacecraft designed to transport passengers safely through the inhospitable environment of space. This interpretation adds another layer of depth to the narrative, highlighting the timeless relevance and adaptability of the scriptures to different contexts and interpretations.

I bet that you didn't see that one coming?

[Valo]

Question: Would a sealed ship that had a bowl or dish like shape with a white lit stone inside used as a guiding light be a suitable symbol for how the Tuatha de Danaan vessel is understood to mean?

Chatgpt: Yes, that imagery could certainly be a symbolic representation of the vessel associated with the Tuatha de Danaan. The sealed ship with a bowl or dish shape containing a white lit stone inside serves as a powerful metaphor for guidance, enlightenment, and protection. The white lit stone could symbolize wisdom, spiritual illumination, or a connection to the divine, while the ship itself represents a journey or passage to other realms. This interpretation captures the mystical and transformative nature often attributed to the vessel in Irish mythology.

CONTEXT (Wikipedia Description of Ether Book of Mormon)

Jared and his people were among the many scattered peoples from the destruction of the Tower of Babel. The brother of Jared is described as "a large and mighty man ... highly favored of the Lord",[7] and seems to have been the spiritual leader of the group. He was given a vision of the history of the world, and inscribed prophecies, which were "sealed up" until the Lord decides to reveal them. The Lord told the brother of Jared to build unpowered submarines, termed "barges" or "vessels", to cross the ocean to the promised land. The barges could circulate fresh air because of openings in the top and bottom of the vessel.[8] The hole in the top could be "stopped up" when the waves crashed over the vessel to prevent scuttling. The hole in the bottom is assumed to have been constructed as a sort of moon pool with the lip above the waterline so it would not flood the vessel. This would also allow wave action and the buoying of the vessel to pump fresh air in and out of the vessel when the upper opening was uncapped.[9]

Because the vessels could not sustain fire or windows for light, the brother of Jared went to a mountain and prayed for help. God touched several molten stones and made them shine. Because of the brother of Jared's great faith, he saw the finger of God. He then saw and spoke with Jehovah. The people launched the vessels and traveled through great storms. After 344 days, they arrived at the Americas. Jared and his brother led the people to successfully establish a righteous nation.

Ether 6

2] For it came to pass after the Lord had prepared the stones which the brother of Jared had carried up into the mount, the brother of Jared came down out of the mount, and he did put forth the stones into the vessels which were prepared, one in each end thereof; and behold, they did give light unto the vessels.

[3] And thus the Lord caused stones to shine in darkness, to give light unto men, women, and children, that they might not cross the great waters in darkness.

[4] And it came to pass that when they had prepared all manner of food, that thereby they might subsist upon the water, and also food for their flocks and herds, and whatsoever beast or animal or fowl that they should carry with them -- and it came to pass that when they had done all these things they got aboard of their vessels or barges, and set forth into the sea, commending themselves unto the Lord their God.

[5] And it came to pass that the Lord God caused that there should be a furious wind blow upon the face of the waters, towards the promised land; and thus they were tossed upon the waves of the sea before the wind.

[6] And it came to pass that they were many times buried in the depths of the sea, because of the mountain waves which broke upon them, and also the great and terrible tempests which were caused by the fierceness of the wind.

[7] And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish, and also they were tight like unto the ark of Noah; therefore when they were encompassed about by many waters they did cry unto the Lord, and he did bring them forth again upon the top of the waters.

[8] And it came to pass that the wind did never cease to blow towards the promised land while they were upon the waters; and thus they were driven forth before the wind.

[9] And they did sing praises unto the Lord; yea, the brother of Jared did sing praises unto the Lord, and he did thank and praise the Lord all the day long; and when the night came, they did not cease to praise the Lord.

In the book of Ether instruction is given for building barges to take the Jaredites to the land that is choice above all other lands. I stipulate that the choice land is where God is. I stipulate that God did not live on this earth. I stipulate that the special barges built were for space travel and that all the ocean and wind effects are metaphors for the dangers of space travel. Please analyze the construction of the barge like ships for the suitability of space travel as opposed to traveling on the ocean. " 16 And the Lord said: Go to work and build, after the manner of abarges which ye have hitherto built. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did go to work, and also his brethren, and built barges after the manner which they had built, according to the binstructions of the Lord. And they were small, and they were light upon the water, even like unto the lightness of a fowl upon the water.

17 And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly atight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish.

18 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, I have performed the work which thou hast commanded me, and I have made the barges according as thou hast directed me.

19 And behold, O Lord, in them there is no light; whither shall we steer? And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish.

20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.

21 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did so, according as the Lord had commanded.

22 And he cried again unto the Lord saying: O Lord, behold I have done even as thou hast commanded me; and I have prepared the vessels for my people, and behold there is no light in them. Behold, O Lord, wilt thou suffer that we shall cross this great water in darkness?

23 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels? For behold, ye cannot have awindows, for they will be dashed in pieces; neither shall ye take fire with you, for ye shall not go by the light of fire.

24 For behold, ye shall be as a awhale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you. Nevertheless, I will bring you up again out of the depths of the sea; for the bwinds have gone forth cout of my mouth, and also the drains and the floods have I sent forth.

25 And behold, I prepare you against these things; for ye cannot cross this great deep save I prepare you against the waves of the sea, and the winds which have gone forth, and the floods which shall come. Therefore what will ye that I should prepare for you that ye may have light when ye are swallowed up in the depths of the sea?"

ChatGPT
Your interpretation of the Jaredite barges as metaphorical representations of spacecraft for space travel is intriguing. Let's analyze the characteristics of the barges described in the Book of Ether in the context of your interpretation:

Size and Weight: The barges were small and light upon the water, akin to the lightness of a fowl. In the context of space travel, this could suggest a design optimized for maneuverability and efficiency in traversing the vastness of space, where excessive weight could be a hindrance.
Watertight Construction: The barges were exceedingly tight, designed to hold water like unto a dish. In space, maintaining a sealed environment is crucial for survival, protecting against the vacuum of space. The tight construction could symbolize the need for airtight seals to preserve the life-supporting atmosphere within the spacecraft.
Ventilation: The Lord instructed the brother of Jared to create holes in the top and bottom of the barges for air exchange. In the context of space travel, this could represent the need for a controlled ventilation system to regulate oxygen levels and remove carbon dioxide, ensuring the occupants have a breathable atmosphere.
Light: The absence of light in the barges posed a challenge for the Jaredites. The Lord provided a solution by asking what they desired for light. In a spacecraft, windows might not be feasible due to the risk of damage, but alternative light sources, such as artificial lighting systems or advanced display technologies, could provide illumination for the occupants.
Protection from the Elements: The Lord assured the Jaredites that despite the challenges they would face, he would protect them from the waves and winds. In the context of space travel, this could symbolize the need for spacecraft to withstand the harsh conditions of space, including radiation, micrometeoroids, and extreme temperatures.
Overall, when viewed through the lens of space travel, the construction and features of the Jaredite barges align with the requirements for spacecraft designed to transport passengers safely through the inhospitable environment of space. This interpretation adds another layer of depth to the narrative, highlighting the timeless relevance and adaptability of the scriptures to different contexts and interpretations.

I bet that you didn't see that one coming?

If I am to speak the Truth, I did not anticipate you bringing this up now but I am not surprised by the idea as it's something I have already proposed. The idea that one day we would need a rocket propelled by gravity, perhaps, to launch us to the New Earth is an idea given to me by the voice I recognize as Father. Perhaps it has been my subconscious piecing together parts that I have assimilated over time and this is one conclusion it has drawn, nonetheless, I have seen that idea coming and anticipated as much. However, I certainly was not considering that when I had my discussion with the robot.

[Valo]

Question: Would a sealed ship that had a bowl or dish like shape with a white lit stone inside used as a guiding light be a suitable symbol for how the Tuatha de Danaan vessel is understood to mean?

Chatgpt: Yes, that imagery could certainly be a symbolic representation of the vessel associated with the Tuatha de Danaan. The sealed ship with a bowl or dish shape containing a white lit stone inside serves as a powerful metaphor for guidance, enlightenment, and protection. The white lit stone could symbolize wisdom, spiritual illumination, or a connection to the divine, while the ship itself represents a journey or passage to other realms. This interpretation captures the mystical and transformative nature often attributed to the vessel in Irish mythology.

CONTEXT (Wikipedia Description of Ether Book of Mormon)

Jared and his people were among the many scattered peoples from the destruction of the Tower of Babel. The brother of Jared is described as "a large and mighty man ... highly favored of the Lord",[7] and seems to have been the spiritual leader of the group. He was given a vision of the history of the world, and inscribed prophecies, which were "sealed up" until the Lord decides to reveal them. The Lord told the brother of Jared to build unpowered submarines, termed "barges" or "vessels", to cross the ocean to the promised land. The barges could circulate fresh air because of openings in the top and bottom of the vessel.[8] The hole in the top could be "stopped up" when the waves crashed over the vessel to prevent scuttling. The hole in the bottom is assumed to have been constructed as a sort of moon pool with the lip above the waterline so it would not flood the vessel. This would also allow wave action and the buoying of the vessel to pump fresh air in and out of the vessel when the upper opening was uncapped.[9]

Because the vessels could not sustain fire or windows for light, the brother of Jared went to a mountain and prayed for help. God touched several molten stones and made them shine. Because of the brother of Jared's great faith, he saw the finger of God. He then saw and spoke with Jehovah. The people launched the vessels and traveled through great storms. After 344 days, they arrived at the Americas. Jared and his brother led the people to successfully establish a righteous nation.

Ether 6

2] For it came to pass after the Lord had prepared the stones which the brother of Jared had carried up into the mount, the brother of Jared came down out of the mount, and he did put forth the stones into the vessels which were prepared, one in each end thereof; and behold, they did give light unto the vessels.

[3] And thus the Lord caused stones to shine in darkness, to give light unto men, women, and children, that they might not cross the great waters in darkness.

[4] And it came to pass that when they had prepared all manner of food, that thereby they might subsist upon the water, and also food for their flocks and herds, and whatsoever beast or animal or fowl that they should carry with them -- and it came to pass that when they had done all these things they got aboard of their vessels or barges, and set forth into the sea, commending themselves unto the Lord their God.

[5] And it came to pass that the Lord God caused that there should be a furious wind blow upon the face of the waters, towards the promised land; and thus they were tossed upon the waves of the sea before the wind.

[6] And it came to pass that they were many times buried in the depths of the sea, because of the mountain waves which broke upon them, and also the great and terrible tempests which were caused by the fierceness of the wind.

[7] And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish, and also they were tight like unto the ark of Noah; therefore when they were encompassed about by many waters they did cry unto the Lord, and he did bring them forth again upon the top of the waters.

[8] And it came to pass that the wind did never cease to blow towards the promised land while they were upon the waters; and thus they were driven forth before the wind.

[9] And they did sing praises unto the Lord; yea, the brother of Jared did sing praises unto the Lord, and he did thank and praise the Lord all the day long; and when the night came, they did not cease to praise the Lord.

In the book of Ether instruction is given for building barges to take the Jaredites to the land that is choice above all other lands. I stipulate that the choice land is where God is. I stipulate that God did not live on this earth. I stipulate that the special barges built were for space travel and that all the ocean and wind effects are metaphors for the dangers of space travel. Please analyze the construction of the barge like ships for the suitability of space travel as opposed to traveling on the ocean. " 16 And the Lord said: Go to work and build, after the manner of abarges which ye have hitherto built. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did go to work, and also his brethren, and built barges after the manner which they had built, according to the binstructions of the Lord. And they were small, and they were light upon the water, even like unto the lightness of a fowl upon the water.

17 And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly atight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish.

18 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, I have performed the work which thou hast commanded me, and I have made the barges according as thou hast directed me.

19 And behold, O Lord, in them there is no light; whither shall we steer? And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish.

20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.

21 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did so, according as the Lord had commanded.

22 And he cried again unto the Lord saying: O Lord, behold I have done even as thou hast commanded me; and I have prepared the vessels for my people, and behold there is no light in them. Behold, O Lord, wilt thou suffer that we shall cross this great water in darkness?

23 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels? For behold, ye cannot have awindows, for they will be dashed in pieces; neither shall ye take fire with you, for ye shall not go by the light of fire.

24 For behold, ye shall be as a awhale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you. Nevertheless, I will bring you up again out of the depths of the sea; for the bwinds have gone forth cout of my mouth, and also the drains and the floods have I sent forth.

25 And behold, I prepare you against these things; for ye cannot cross this great deep save I prepare you against the waves of the sea, and the winds which have gone forth, and the floods which shall come. Therefore what will ye that I should prepare for you that ye may have light when ye are swallowed up in the depths of the sea?"

ChatGPT
Your interpretation of the Jaredite barges as metaphorical representations of spacecraft for space travel is intriguing. Let's analyze the characteristics of the barges described in the Book of Ether in the context of your interpretation:

Size and Weight: The barges were small and light upon the water, akin to the lightness of a fowl. In the context of space travel, this could suggest a design optimized for maneuverability and efficiency in traversing the vastness of space, where excessive weight could be a hindrance.
Watertight Construction: The barges were exceedingly tight, designed to hold water like unto a dish. In space, maintaining a sealed environment is crucial for survival, protecting against the vacuum of space. The tight construction could symbolize the need for airtight seals to preserve the life-supporting atmosphere within the spacecraft.
Ventilation: The Lord instructed the brother of Jared to create holes in the top and bottom of the barges for air exchange. In the context of space travel, this could represent the need for a controlled ventilation system to regulate oxygen levels and remove carbon dioxide, ensuring the occupants have a breathable atmosphere.
Light: The absence of light in the barges posed a challenge for the Jaredites. The Lord provided a solution by asking what they desired for light. In a spacecraft, windows might not be feasible due to the risk of damage, but alternative light sources, such as artificial lighting systems or advanced display technologies, could provide illumination for the occupants.
Protection from the Elements: The Lord assured the Jaredites that despite the challenges they would face, he would protect them from the waves and winds. In the context of space travel, this could symbolize the need for spacecraft to withstand the harsh conditions of space, including radiation, micrometeoroids, and extreme temperatures.
Overall, when viewed through the lens of space travel, the construction and features of the Jaredite barges align with the requirements for spacecraft designed to transport passengers safely through the inhospitable environment of space. This interpretation adds another layer of depth to the narrative, highlighting the timeless relevance and adaptability of the scriptures to different contexts and interpretations.

I bet that you didn't see that one coming?

More specifically I've seen in my minds eye as this creation collapses, the energy of that collapse, a gravity wave, would give us the momentum we need to reach the New Earth.

Now that's a far out there idea and considering the reality of such an idea outside of fantasy brings challenges.

[BeNotDeceived]

Overall, when viewed through the lens of space travel, the construction and features of the Jaredite barges align with the requirements for spacecraft designed to transport passengers safely through the inhospitable environment of space. This interpretation adds another layer of depth to the narrative, highlighting the timeless relevance and adaptability of the scriptures to different contexts and interpretations.

I bet that you didn't see that one coming?

More specifically I've seen in my minds eye as this creation collapses, the energy of that collapse, a gravity wave, would give us the momentum we need to reach the New Earth.

Now that's a far out there idea and considering the reality of such an idea outside of fantasy brings challenges.

Re: Tool: Scripture Word Finder

https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 7#p1477357
… free tools.

https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/softw ... pelsearch/

Others found Gravity in Titus and Timothy.

Very cool date displayed.

What’s up with that.

[High Spy]

Re: Hello, Possums
https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic. ... 3#p2860483

Aww. That sounds exhausting.

Visiting just now, there was a Narrow Neck of Land thread that could be enlightened that the BOM lands were revealed to be across the ocean. Originally stated as being in England, but later clarified. But yeah, if demonstration earthquakes didn’t get the point across, then expending energy on stiff necked people will likely only lead to excruciating exhaustion.

(You can lead a horse to water, but he may refuse hydrating.)

[High Spy]

Re: Seeing Things Differently -DanP the apologist excuse.
https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic. ... 4#p2860754

when all else fails and they know they can't win, the apologists always go for a stalemate via relativism.

Perhaps they then feel they can punt to possibilities and save themselves......eventua.............lly................. just give it time, a Nephite ruin WILL be found..........

Only if they quit believing in fairytales and look in the right place.