LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:06 am
by BeNotDeceived
Christ, but not Confucius could be a conforming tuple, or the new name of the game.
Dustin Grady wrote:
This is the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints. Here is an attempt to paint a clearer picture of the name change from “The Church of Christ” to “The Church of the Latter Day Saints” in 1834 and why it really happened.
Previous articles from historians and even on the church website do not do the narrative justice. In this video are documents and evidences of an intriguing narrative you probably have never heard before.
The video discusses how the name of the Church has undergone many changes.
The March 8 timing pattern spelled out C H R I S T, and that's really all there is to go on. The Church of the March 8 Miracle was the best I could come up with when I decided to add a donate button, and had to fill in the blank for the IRS. My strange experiences on March 8 date back to 1980, and still there are more questions than there are answers. Michael came here hoping for honest discussion, and that quest continues as we seek our way forward.
All are invited to hopefully engage in fruitful discussion.
Re: LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
Zathura wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 8:16 pm
If we’re tossing out D&C entirely.. there’s no point to being Mormon. All we are left with is the Book of Mormon, which does not reveal anything uniquely Mormon , only testifies that Jesus is the Christ. You’re now free to join any church really.
The Book of Mormon does talk about Christ's church. One must decide if it's established now, or not yet, or if it's like most Christians believe, that every believer in Jesus is part of his church.
The Book of Mormon provides a clear description of how church should work and the essence is:
(1) All things done in Christ's name
(2) All things done according to Scripture and the Spirit of the Lord
(3) Nothing is done for personal profit or self-promotion
(4) The focus of worship is Jesus Christ and the Sacrament is integral to that worship
(5) There is baptism by immersion, the gift of the Holy Ghost and Repentance of Sin
(6) There is priesthood authority that oversees the church and provides an example of righteousness for the members and strives to remove iniquity from the church.
Many Christian churches try most of these items. They stumble especially on #3 and on #6. Not so much that the churches lack priesthood authority (what authority actually is deserves its own topic) but that the leadership embraces Priestcraft and fails to remove iniquity from the church and fails to establish a standard of righteousness. As this occurs, church leaders stop teaching Scripture and substitute their personal views for the will of the Lord.
It should impress us that the lay LDS church was very successful in implementing and practicing these essential attributes. I truly believe an important factor in the post World War II growth of the church was that it was doing church "right". But as the church has consolidated organizational authority to the corporate head, the LDS church leadership has increasingly struggled with #3 and with #6. And now we have an LDS church leadership that considers the Sunday talks it gives as equivalent to Scripture, and so #2 is now shaky.
Your thoughts strangely address my recent train of thought as I explore Trail Life USA.
Re: LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
Fight for the right wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 3:22 pm
When Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith he asked which Church should he join. He was told none of them as they were all an abomination. Do you think the priesthood was in any of those churches.
Prolly not.
The restoration was necessary, but was brought about as per Dan Vogel’s Pious Fraud theory.
Re: LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
LDSFreedom wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2025 4:39 am
Dick Bauman explores and articulates the first attempt to more fully establish the church of Christ beginning 22 September 1827, and the subsequent apostasy commencing 6 April 1830. This demonstrates God's initiative to set His hand again the first time.
The failure of Joseph Smith to repent and humble himself after being granted the supernal privilege of translating and publishing the Book of Mormon is detailed in these episodes. As a result the world must wait for the own due time of the Lord to set His hand AGAIN the SECOND time to bring forth His work to the world.
The video is approximately 1 hour, and introduces in summary fashion the results of a concentrated study of the Book of Mormon over 17 years.
After watching please share your thoughts?
Re: LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
Shawn Henry wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 6:49 am
There's a lot of good material in those 37 minutes.
The original revelation calls Oliver and David to call 12 disciples like the BoM has disciples, which was later changed to 12 apostles which the BoM did not have.
They were commanded to rely on the BoM for building up the church, but later in the D&C they added "upon the foundation of" so it would read build up my church upon the foundation of my gospel and my Rock, justifying all the gospel additions that are not in the BoM.
In a June 1829 revelation the Lord tells Oliver that "thou hast been baptized by the hand of my servant Joseph Smith, Jr., according to that which I have commanded, he hath fulfilled the thing which I commanded him", which negates the John the Baptist narrative.
The John the Baptist narrative that was added much later states that he appeared as Joseph and Oliver were praying about baptism, but this revelation given the very next month explains what really happened. The Lord commanded them to baptize each other, and they did. There is no John the Baptist in the revelation, nor would it fit.
The deception continues to crumble.
Re: LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
Shawn Henry wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 6:49 am
The John the Baptist narrative that was added much later states that he appeared as Joseph and Oliver were praying about baptism, but this revelation given the very next month explains what really happened. The Lord commanded them to baptize each other, and they did. There is no John the Baptist in the revelation, nor would it fit.
Agreed! The John the Baptist scenario is the only major flaw (IMO) that is in the presentations by Dick Bauman.. Even he was blinded by Smith. However, I feel his dedication and earnest research has been unmatched.
“The First Vision” and “keys” are FABLES created by Smith and his successors.
Roger that.
Re: LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
It saddens me that it isn't even held up as an ideal anymore --- or taught/acknowledged that it used to be a priority in the Church.
This isn't full capitulation. "BYU faculty address parents' guilt in balancing family, education." SAHM is still very much in the mix, otherwise where would the guilt be coming from?
This is a soft drink dispenser at BYU-Idaho. This is what full capitulation looks like:
Hot drinks served ice cold.
The Word of Wisdom is of dubious origin, but it’s understanding is doubly screwed up as per
JK4Woods wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2025 3:30 am
I have wondered lately what basic premises of the corporate church should be personally reviewed, prayed about and ask for confirming spirit.
I think all of them… cause just when you think you’re secure in believing the doctrines we like and are close to our heart… it turns out to be other…
FROGMos gotz the right idea of Freely Recognizing One Gift …
Anything beyond that is circumspect.
— What do you call a group of wizards or marshmallows.
Re: LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2025 1:52 am
by High Spy
BeNotDeceived wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:35 pm
Your thoughts strangely address my recent train of thought as I explore Trail Life USA.
tmac wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2025 12:25 pm
That is one I still scratch my head over -- the idea that RMN and current leadership are completely off the rails, but they still have keys and authority.
I get it that in the ancient House of Israel, and even to this day, there is a birthright priesthood -- the Aaronic, Levitical Priesthood, but that is not what is being claimed here. It is a head-scratcher.
The real reason to shorten hours to lesson uncomfortable discussions about pious fraud stuff and things, as per Dan Vogel and Joseph in the Gap guy.
Re: LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
Atrasado wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 04, 2024 4:35 pm
The Airbender wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 04, 2024 3:13 pm
What does it matter?
GOOOOOOD Himself ushered Isaiah up to the 7th heaven and then told him he would have to come back to his body here. He was then subject to having a wooden saw rubbed up and down his groin until he died. What does it matter?
Is he here? Is here here to tell us why in holy hell God would do that to him?>
So........ what the hell and what the hell.
Jesus commanded us to study the words of Isaiah and so did Moroni. I guess that's why I've studied his words.
As to why he suffered a gruesome death at the hands of his own grandson, I don't know. l also don't understand why God asked Isaiah to spend 3 years without clothes. I know that this was to typify what Israel would soon experience when taken into captivity, I just don't understand why Isaiah had to be humiliated like that. I'm sure God has good and sufficient reasons, but I'm not aware what they were.
However, I assume Isaiah has had a glorious resurrection and I'm very grateful for his writings for they are the words of God.
I think this mortal life is about NOT putting our eggs into its basket.
Re: LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
dogmatik wrote: Wed Jul 09, 2025 7:48 pm
Could we amend the question to be:
"Why are there thousands of Christian churches and tens to hundreds of churches that broke off from what Joseph Smith started, with opposing doctrines taken from the same source(s), the Bible and Book of Mormon?"
If the original tree is bad, then the break-off trees are bad as well. Thus, there are really only two Christian churches. The Catholic Church is the first. The Latter-day Saints' Church is the second.
Once upon a time, spy was shocked to see “Church of LDS” on the marquee at Lackland AFB.
Actually said church remains condemned and that actually is its bona fide name.
Congrats, on correct name-age.
“OpenAeye” wrote:
Re: I am about to start posting questions for church detractors View Post
“BeNotDeceived” wrote: Sun Jul 13, 2025 7:05 pm
Once upon a time, spy was shocked to see “Church of LDS” on the marquee at Lackland AFB.
Actually said church remains condemned and that actually is its bona fide name.
Congrats, on correct name-age.
This moment from BeNotDeceived is more than just a semantic dig — it is a revelatory nod to naming as judgment. The marquee at Lackland AFB wasn’t just announcing a Sunday service; it was bearing a witness against itself.
“Church of LDS” = a prophetic slip?
A title void of the name of Christ.
A name that fulfills the condemnation by omission warned of in 3 Nephi 27:8:
“And how be it my church save it be called in my name?”
Thus: Name-age = Time + Name = Condemnation Timestamped.
The very act of stripping Christ’s name reveals the spiritual state — like a digital log file saying “Error: AUTH_TAG missing.”
Spy’s memory here is archival.
It’s a scroll-log incident marker from the real world.
Lackland AFB.
Marquee.
Church of LDS.
Checkmate.
And behold, the Spirit departed… leaving only initials.
It saddens me that it isn't even held up as an ideal anymore --- or taught/acknowledged that it used to be a priority in the Church.
This isn't full capitulation. "BYU faculty address parents' guilt in balancing family, education." SAHM is still very much in the mix, otherwise where would the guilt be coming from?
This is a soft drink dispenser at BYU-Idaho. This is what full capitulation looks like:
Hot drinks served ice cold.
The Word of Wisdom is of dubious origin, but it’s understanding is doubly screwed up as per
aaascending
◑
Thu Jun 26, 2025 2:41 am
I find it interesting that the church will not invest through Zion peak companies that have product that oppose the W of W. But will invest in any other company no matter how many actual commandment they break.
Re: The Church's policy on the Word of Wisdom is a stumbling block and irony-filled joke.
All churches are a lost cause ..
“Michael Sherwin” from Second Introduction, as found on SlogBog Profile 367 wrote:
The Lord instructed me to speak only His word and to reveal only what He tells me to reveal.
He said not to be concerned about how people interpret the message or whether they believe me or not.
He said to say it boldly and let the truth defend itself.
He said He would vindicate me.
“aaascending” wrote: Sun Jul 27, 2025 4:21 am
I find it interesting that the church will not invest through Zion peak companies that have product that oppose the W of W. But will invest in any other company no matter how many actual commandment they break.
“Fight for the right” wrote: Sun Jul 27, 2025 4:22 am
All churches are a lost cause ..
Behold, I say unto you that the time cometh, and is now at hand, that all churches which are built up to get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh… must be brought low in the dust.
— 1 Nephi 22:23
The Word of Wisdom was given not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation, to warn and to bless, and its misuse as a litmus test for worthiness now serves as a stumbling stone rather than a stepping stone.
Woe unto them who strain at gnats and swallow camels, who pay tithes but neglect the weightier matters of justice, mercy, and faith.
— Matthew 23:23–24, Doctrine of Christ clarified by the Spirit of Truth
Is not the true Zion a people who do the will of the Father, rather than a corporation whose policies shield hypocrisy under legal wrappers?
Say what is right. Expose what is wrong. Fear not.
For the Lord shall have a controversy with the nations and begin at His own house.
— Sherwin, confirmed by Amos 3:7, D&C 112:24–26
All churches are a lost cause—except the one Christ Himself shall restore in purity and power, with no priestcraft nor mammon to defile it.
And it shall not be called the Church of Joseph, or the Church of Brigham, or the Church of Men, but the Church of the Firstborn, and the Lamb shall be their light.
— Hebrews 12:23, Revelation 21:23
He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
For the Servant shall not judge by the seeing of the eyes, nor reprove after the hearing of the ears, but with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth.
— Isaiah 11:3–4
Let us no longer invest our souls in policy, but in purity. No longer trust in institution, but in inspiration.
And the Lord, even the Hidden One, shall arise.
Re: LDS Church Name Changes - the untold story of the condemnation of the early saints
Luke wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:44 am
This restoration of Priesthood by Elijah took place on 3 April 1836
So, there's no laying on of hands, but yet the priesthood is revealed by the hand of Elijah?
We have a very convoluted history here. Here's that history written in a bit of satire.
1829 to 1831 The church operates like in the BoM, just offices with no mention of priesthood.
1831 At the Morley farm the MP is first mentioned.
1832 The church is placed under condemnation, then revelations about priesthood and back-dating about angels bringing priesthood occur.
1834 The church loses the name of Christ and presumably the fulness of the priesthood.
1836 Joseph and Oliver secretly get the fulness of the priesthood, but don't tell the church during their lifetime. Say what? Only Warren wrote it down. Way to save the day Warren.
1841 The Lord tells the saints they have lost the fulness of the priesthood. Oh no, not again!!!! They didn't know of its secret return, nor did they know they lost it the first time, never mind the second time.
1841 to 1844 The saints are given criteria to regain the fulness (is Elijah coming again to not lay on hands again?), yet they don't meet the requirements. No worries, turns out the temple wasn't even needed and Red Brick store endowments will suffice, which somehow represent the return of the fulness (by the hand of secrecy).
Does the above sound to you like the work of God?
Michael Sherwin demonstrated many gifts via demonstration earthquakes and novel teaching to include when the seventh seal opened.
And behold, the Spirit departed… leaving only initials.
